RR Rated M For Mature
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 792 ONLINE 80 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
6 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ]8752 viewsPOST REPLY
Boca Bearings . XHELI.COM . Advantage Hobby

.
.
e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > THE PRO. (video)
 
 
genovia
Elite Veteran
Location: N UR NECK OF DA WOODS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Quote 
I see the see-saw and mixing arms are quite different. I'd love to see a more responsive head on my old bird...


HUMMMM!!! Idea in my head is forming..
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thanks for that nice vid, the motor that is up folks' sleeve is in the vid below.

I sure hate to keep folks in suspense, so here we go.

The head is upgradable. Ever since I heard of the new 3D pro. I have been searching for the most optimal motor for it. I think I have found it. I wrote a thread months ago regarding how hard the himax 2015 was going to have to work with the new task of having to spin 2 rotors. It will do it for sport flying fine, but it runs much hotter than usual. Now, If you want ultimate cheap 3D power, the MTM 400DF outrunner w/15-16T pinion is the way to go.

The 10 amp stock himax motor with heatsink weighs ~53g, but it only puts out 110watts. The 400DF is a 20 amp motor, puts out 235 watts but only weighs 47g. And since it has power in excess, it runs cool w/o a heatsink. A 5 min flight yielded a temp of 85F deg and it is smooth and quiet. Of course my ruler blades are really efficient at 255mm and 3.3mm thick, helps to decrease drag as well as noise. My current setup is with the CP hummer, just to get an idea of how much power it has as well as how many amps the total system draws as a ball-park preview for the the new 3D pro. You are going to love these numbers.

It turns out that it only drew 8amp w/2970-3000rpm headspeed at 0deg pitch, 9.6amps at hover, and 15.8amps with full 13deg pitch (and bolted down with bricks so in true flight it will be much less) In fact, I'm running this setup with my polyquest 3s 880mah pack This motor is awesome. Those of you who know me have realized that most of my work involves collecting / publishing data for all of these experiments that I run so that people can make more informed decisions about the options they have.

If you want twice the power, less weight, cooler temps, then the MTM 400DF is the way to go. Here is a headspeed setup vid of the motor, and yes you have guessed right as to which motor is going in my new 3d pro

Vid:
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...0df_install.zip
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
docnascar
Veteran
Location: Maryland, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
nice work Zoom.











....there goes that CA glue sticking to my fingers again!!!!
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Vinnie FinnHeliman - Location: Rochester, NY 14624 - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
JustGoFly 400DF

Zoom,

Great stuff ! You are certainly helping the heli community make an informed choice.

The 400DF can be found here: JustGoFly 400DF Brushless Motor

The 400DF is a great all around motor. It's high enough KV for heli's, just low enough to fly a jet or plane like a bullet direct drive, and in a gearbox can be setup to fly fast, or huge amounts of thrust. It's small size and light weight are deceiving. Sometimes you just hit the right combo !



Vinnie
JustGoFly.com
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Xnaron
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Zoom thats way too much amp draw for a heli of 3d pro size (9.6 amps at hover). Keep in mind this 3d pro is designed to fly with a 10amp esc. You are going to kill your polyquest 880mah pack if you run it 15.2amps... I think that pack is 12c continuous with maybe 16c burst. 16c burst is 14amps. The problem with running a bigger motor like this is that you will need to run a bigger battery pack. I would say at least a 3s 1320. A TREX which weighs almost twice that of a 3d pro hummer will hover at 8amps... In my opinion this is not a good setup for a 380 gram heli.

Hover amperage should be around 4-5 amps. Full pitch maybe 11amps at most... keep in mind a phoenix 10 can handle a little more that 10 amps safely. Basically this heli is about the same size as a hornet 2. I would say a twister-x motor (rebranded axi) from ms http://www.mscomposit.com/Products/.../3d_engine.html would be a good choice if the gearing is similar.

Brendin

Lighter is better.
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Xnaron,

I am just putting out the data, so people can make their own decisions. I have very little time for long drawn out debates, so I will try to be very concise and non-confrontational about my measurements.

First of all, I own and have tested all of the motors the are in question. I have personally pushed a CC10 until it has burst in flames just for experimentation sake, so I know the limits of all of these components. I'm a scientist. I never go off the theory that everybody is so quick to echo without measuring these ideas themselves. Hovering puts the most amount of constant stress on any heli be it electric, nitro, or whatever because you are not benefitting from the transitional lift of forward flight.

My first heli was a Predator, but I have found my home with electrics. When it comes to knowledge about these little guys, I have published a lot to help others when it comes to these little guys, heck I know of reps who have come to me for advise about these hummers. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but do a search and you will see that the native hummer pilots were the ones answering the questions.

The micro electric world is different from the nitro world in many ways. I even see reps posting throttle curves that matches their nitros. I guess they will soon learn that electric motors have flat torque curves, unlike the curves for nitro power, so the throttle curves must adjusted accordingly. My knowledge comes from personal experience and data collected from my experiments.

The numbers I published for the 400DF are similar to those witnessed with the himax. I'm telling you that the Himax 2015 is not an optimal motor for this new heli. I have fried esc's listening to what everybody once believed. The components I run are based on scientific experimentation, not from here say. I don't see very many other putting out data to help others. You are more than welcome to take what i say with a grain of salt, but my Current hummer with the same himax spooled up to 3000rpm at zero deg and draw the same 8amps, so the notion that it will hover at 4 amps is way off, my tail motors can draw upto 4amps alone. Another thing, I love Century and have spent thousands with them, but they are very well-known around these parts for putting out micro helis with under powered motors. I'll leave you to do the research that topic, but as far as the data goes, please only share what you have measured yourself, not what you have heard, that is why I always try to show videos of my findings just for those nay-sayers.

Another note, just because some sells you items in a combo package, does not mean that everything in that combo is optimal for performance.
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I left something off. I started out with the Gen 2 1320 pack which weighs 93.3g, ran the measurement on the ammeter and noticed that the current draw was much less than I had anticipated so I decided to try my PQ 880, and it performed beautifully with the 400DF, it did not even get very warm. These further support that my setup is more than happy.

I don't openly recommend everybody to use a PQ 880 pack on there new hummer which all of the monitoring tools, but when these things are setup properly, you can get away more in other areas as long as you know what you are doing.
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xnaron
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I have done numerous experiments myself with Hummingbirds, Hornet 2's, Shogun's, Corona's, TREX's and eHawks (Century Hawk sport converted to electric) You are preaching to the choir here BTW I also have a predator gasser... nice bird. I have tried out more motor/esc/battery combinations than I care to admit. I have also measured the observations with test equipment like yourself. Just because you did some measurements on the 400df doesn't make it the perfect motor for the 3d pro. I am sure many people appreciate you taking the time to do some research but I think it is a little too early to go off and say that you have found the perfect motor. Yeesh...
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
JonDoe
Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
880mAh / 9.6A means less than 6 mins flight time just hovering, are you happy with that?
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
wilsonj
Senior Heliman
Location: Waikerie, South Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi Zoom,

Thanks for the info. Yeah yeah I am still around . Don't participate in the forums much any more, and haven't done any fling for months. But I am about to get back into it.

Reading your post was interesting. I don't recall what amp figures I used to get at 0 degrees pitch with the axi, but max was only around 10amps.

What gear ratio are you using? Is it the stock 140t main gear? From plugging the numbers into my sprea sheet I returned a pinion size around 14t. I think 16 is getting a bit big, and if you used that that may be the reason the amps are a little higher than expected at 0 degrees.. Just my thoughts of course, and only theory at this stage. Nothing like real world testing is there!?

Anyway, I look forward to getting my 3d Pro. I have Century's motor coming also. But will be looking forward to experimenting also.

Keep up the testing

Regards
Jamie Wilson
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Xnaron,

As I have said before, "Options", do you have any better economical suggestions, if so, where are they?

I have not seen any of your publications dealing with this hummer, so please, don't knock what I do. I happen to like the motor better than the Himax even on the Current CP. Which motors do you suggest, and please take the extra time to share your data. I'm sure the RC community would like to benefit from it as well.

It is so strange how people can sometimes hoard meaningful information, but are quick share criticism, or set back and wait for other people to prove setups in order to save their own dollars. i personally think this 400DF motor is a jewel, and for $50 I can say it will be very hard to beat. I there is a better, cheaper solution out there please share this info so everybody can benefit.

And Jon Doe you get more flight time if you don't just hover, I did my flight measurement to share with others. You are all more than welcome choose the motor of your choice. it would not bother me at all.

Yes, I am very happy with 6 mins if it means my heli won't be a brick when doing aerobatics weighing 25g extra. I personally have (4) 1320s at the moment, I'm just giving people options, based on concrete data, I see that all people don't appreciate learning how to increase performance, while saving money.

But trust me fellas, I really do have other things that I could be doing with my time other than sacrificing it going beyond the call to benefit others.
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hey Jamie,

Long time no see. Its good to see that you are back. i'm running the 15T. You know I like the higher head speeds. But the numbers i got were the same as the ones I had with the Himax. What people fail to realize is that these or the worse case scenario settings ( the heli was bolted down). In true flight, the numbers will be much nicer. But I would rather know the worse case scenario prior to my bird going the the air, just for peace of mind.

Of course people may choose to run lower speeds than 2900-3000rpm, but I live in this range. If I get a minute less flight, not a problem because I have a ton of batteries.

Jamie, that axi you had in your hummer seemed to out perform the current Himax 2015, but now the himax has the new task of spinning the tail. It was already maxed out with spinning the main rotor before. That is why they are now recommending the 5g heatsink. I was just putting a cheaper solution, 6g lighter, more powerful soltuion out there.
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xnaron
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
If you want to get scientific here then do some math...

448grams =~ 1lb

hummingbird pro ~380grams with electrics

3s polyquest 880ma ~69 grams

AUW= 380 +69 = about 449grams =~ 1lb

Hover Watts = 9.6amps (your hover amperage) x 11.1V = 106.56 Watts

Therefore

You are hovering at 106.56 Watts/lb.... Most electric helis with an efficient motor will hover at around 50 Watts/lb... It doesn't take a scientist to see that your setup is inefficient. I am not trying to criticize you I am just challenging your conclusion. Any true scientist would welcome this rather than seeing it as criticism.

Brendin

P.S. I have shared plenty here and on rcgroups...
02-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
wilsonj
Senior Heliman
Location: Waikerie, South Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi Zoom,

Yeah, I don't know if the Axi 2208/20 will physically fit in the new pro, from what I can see. So the 400DF might be a viable alternative, being that the Kv rating is high enough to allow a 14-16t pinion. Thats assuming the main gear on the pro has the same number of teeth as on the CP.

I also agree the Axi had more power than pretty much anything else on the CP. I'm even suprised when I look back at my video. I forgot how hard it went!! The Axi will accept up to 16Amps also. But thats all academic if it won't fit!

I guess we will all just have to wait a little longer.

Regards
Jamie Wilson
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
wilsonj
Senior Heliman
Location: Waikerie, South Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Zoom, Don't tell me your CP is over 400g!??? What ever happened to that diet you were going to put her on?

My AUW in the video was around 320g with 3S Apogee 800ma packs

Regards
Jamie Wilson
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
If you are going to challege with math, you must first know the facts.

There are 454.4 g in a pound, and the hummer weighs 380g AUW.

I'm sorry Genovia for your thread getting high jacked with non-sense. It is always the outsiders, all always the outsiders.

Jamie, I don't know where these guys are getting their numbers, but I will no longer entertain the nay-sayers, they can run whatever they want.
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
JonDoe
Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
jeez zoom chill!!! i only asked!!! for a motor alternative a GoBrushless motor is a viable option, though i've not finished testing it yet here's some spec's so far

Heli - Hummingbird Elite CP / Hornet 2 Hybrid
Motor - GBx2 full 10mm stack, 12T 24AWG Delta, 12mag 6pole bell 10x4x2 N45







Kv - 3462
Io - 2.1
Rm - 0.9

no load
V - 11.8
A - 2.1
Rpm - 32300

on the heli with 140 tooth main/11 tooth pinion (12.72:1), MS 255mm carbon Hornet 2 blades
0º Pitch
V - 11.0
A - 3.1
Rpm - 2000 (25540@the motor)

-10º Pitch
V - 10.4
A - 4.0
Rpm - 1700 (21624@the motor)

i have some larger pinions on order as i'm looking for 2600-2800 rpm's as the H2 head performs best at this range , it also looks like you could mount a motor on the pro in the same place
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Xnaron
Senior Heliman
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Sigh.... I give up... you win... you are the God of Micro Heli's... I bow to you sir. Ok so that works out to 88Watts/lb for hover then... still inefficient.

Quote 
I'm sorry Genovia for your thread getting high jacked with non-sense. It is always the outsiders, all always the outsiders.


Why are you calling me an outsider? I have been a member here longer than you? I have owned just about every popular micro heli manufactured in the last 3 years. I was one of the first to pre-order my 3d pro. You make a lot of bold statements and don't have any facts to back them up with. I just tried to alert others to the facts. You are running the polyquest 880 out of spec. Doing so with lipoly batteries is dangerous.

See here in this post http://runryder.com/helicopter/t135147p5/ that I was the first to alert everyone that Century was taking pre-orders.


Brendin
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
First of all, I apologize to Genovia. He was just trying to share this most anticipated heli with us. It is the first time the general population got to see this little guy in action. Thanks for sharing Genovia.

Xnaron, is not about winning a debate. I am no god when it comes to these helis, I just thought i would share a cheaper alternative for those who were interested if they happen find theselves wanting more. I don' recall seeing any of these MTM motors in the hummers, and since I owned them, I thought I would relay the info.

You guys can fly whatever you want, the goal is to have fun. I apologize for this tread getting off track.
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I back up everything I have to say my friend. As far as being an outsider, the hummer pilots know exactly what I mean. You have been on the forum for a while, but how much help have you offered to the hummer forum. This is actually the first thread on this hummer forum that I have actually seen your name on. Do you even own the current Hummer? Or are you one of those who wait for everyone else to do the work to work out all of the kinks. Maybe you have, but I don't recall you being around when everyone had to suffer with this current version of the CP hummer. It is fine you think that I make bold statements. If you do a search my posts of this forum, you will see why.

So, finally, an outsider is someone who all of the sudden wants to jump on the band waggon when the times are good. The native hummer pilots are the ones who have suffered the bad times, as well as had fun with the good. They are the ones who have the right to benefit from helpful data. Nobody's CP Hummer hovers at 4amps as you theorectically threw out there. I publish facts not theory my friend.

I never told anyone to run an 880mah pack with this motor, I said that was something I was experimenting with and guess what, the temps were 85F deg max on the motor and pack. This is a very efficient setup. This is not dangerous to me at all. I don't care what you run.
02-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
6 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ]8752 viewsPOST REPLY
Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

.
.
e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > THE PRO. (video)
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Thursday, March 18 - 1:49 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2010 runryder.com | email | link to rr | START HERE | NF