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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > My T-rex with CCPM conversion + TOP MOUNT motor + badass LEHNER
 
 
chuckhager
Key Veteran
Location: Clovis, CA

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I read somewhere in this forum that one of the Hitech servo arms will fit the Futaba 31xx servos. Does anyone know for sure?
02-07-2005 Over year old.
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jmaster
Heliman
Location: Bakersville, NC

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Yes, I have one on a 3108.
02-07-2005 Over year old.
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electro_heli
Heliman
Location: Torrance, CA

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Hi,
HS-56 and GWS pico servo arms don't fit S3103 for sure

Dnam,
Have you experienced any servo freeze with Shadow receiver ? I already experienced once and sent it back to Sombra for firmware upgrade

Regards,
HC
02-07-2005 Over year old.
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Tanner Hall
Senior Heliman
Location: Denver, CO

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i also just got my Lehner 1020/17 from Bishop Power. i haven't installed it yet but i'm looking forward to it. the Lehner is small, light and very powerful!

due to complicated import/export rules, these things are unfortunately verrry tough to get a hold of here in the US - i waited about 2 months. dnam and others waited much longer. that said, i HIGHLY recommend Bishop Power Products (www.b-p-p.com). Troy is an awesome guy to work with.
02-07-2005 Over year old.
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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Yeah, don't order the Lehner as your first and only motor as you won't be flying too soon! BPP said something about from now on Lehner orders will be filled a lot faster but I think it will still take a lot of time. These are all handmade by pretty professional people...

Futaba 3108 can use the same arms as HS-55 or HS-50. I tried.

Futaba 3103 and 3107 need to use the supplied Futaba arms. I haven't found any other that fit these.

EH, oh yes one of my Shadow 1-s did freeze up! This is why I have the Berg in my Rexi now. I sent the Shadow 1-s back for a firmware update. For others if you have any problems PM Sombra. He is on this thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...?postid=3078217
02-08-2005 Over year old.
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guillaume83
Senior Heliman
Location: Toulouse (France), home of the A380

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Does anyone have a phone number for BPP?

I emailed them several times with no reply and there is no phone number on their website.

Thanks

Guillaume
02-08-2005 Over year old.
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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I sent you a PM with their phone number, but usually they reply in 1-2 days. If you send many e-mails and don't get a reply maybe you should try sending from another e-mail address as their spam filter could be deleting your e-mail.
02-08-2005 Over year old.
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dnamVeteran - Location: Herndon, VA - USA - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Lehner on 4S

Just a little update.

Well the Lehner does deliver on it's promise! In it's weight category this is the most powerful motor I have ever seen!

I flew the Lehner with an 11t pinion (still using it as 3529KV) and got HS of around 2800-2900 with 80% throttle. It was very-very strong and would just zip the heli into the sky real fast given full pitch! The motor was drawing every bit of juice out of the 3S TP2100s as it could. Even 30amps and above, even though the batts are only supposed to be able to deliver 25 amps max. Thunder Power batteries are good! As from one of the above posts you can see I even measured 300 Watts and a little above with my wattmeter!

So I thought I have to try it on 4S TP2100s as the Lehner still has a lot of potencial left. Now get this! On 50% throttle with a 10t Eco8 pinion (smallest I could find with 1/8" / 3.17mm bore) HS is around 2800 AND it still pulls above 30 Amps with max power between 460-500 Watts!!!

All this while I hold it in my hand with no bog at all for the first few seconds after applying full pitch. I use the heli governor mode on the Kontronik so it brings up the throttle of course given more pitch and there is a lot of headroom left for it to do it's job! Of course it will start to sag a little if I don't get off the pitch, but even then not that much bog...

I only had a half pack left to try it outside, but man this thing is POWERFUL! You know some of the vids you see (like the Lipoly heli with HS of 2600) with the heli just shooting into the sky like a rocket from standing on the ground? Well this is like that!

The extra weight of the 1 extra cell is far outweighed by the extra power. My Rexi was around 710g-s AUW with the 3S batts and now it is 765g-s AUW.

Just a rough comparison:
3S TP2100, 710g, 300W --> 0.42 Watt/gram
4S TP2100, 765g, 460W --> 0.60 Watt/gram

Here are some pictures. As the motor is mounted on top I can push in the batts a little further to get the CG perfect. Also you can see the Y-connector I made to connect two 2S batts in series. (The connector is a little heavy and accounts for 5-10g gain of weight)





Well, all in all I think I have found the setup I will settle with for now and am VERY happy with. It would be more efficient and have more torque (got way enough now though) to run higher throttle setting but I can't find a smaller pinion. This is OK actually because with the 10t pinion I can use it on 3S batts as well, just have to set the throttle higher. This is good as if I do not want all out power (not to say it is not enough on 3S) I can just use my 3S batts.

One last note. One could use 4S TP1320 but power to weight ratio wouldn't be as good as with 4S TP2100. The 1320s are rated at max 12C also, but I am sure they can deliver a little more. If they are like the 2100s than maybe 20% better burst performance? This then would be around 12x 1.32 x 1.2 = 19 Amps. I think it would look something like this with the 1320s:

4S TP1320, 690g, 280W --> 0.41 W/g

Interesting that it's around the same power to weight ratio as on 3S TP2100s.

Well, that's it for now.

Cheers!
Nam
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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Rastaman
Heliman
Location: La Suede

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Hey Dnam!

Insane!!! I also run the Lehner 1020/17 but mine gets VERY hot with the setup you describe. Do you have any heat problems???

/Stefan
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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While holding the heli in my hand and giving it full throttle many times for a while I measure around 200ºF! Which is too much (have to take into account that holding it down makes the motor work a lot harder), but after a few minutes of hovering it was only about 160º-170º which I think is acceptable (my Mega 16/15/3 used to have the same temps). I didn't measure it after flying outside but I think it should be lower. One advantage of the top mounted motor is that the motor gets more cooling from the rotorwash.

Still need more flights to give a better heat value.
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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yf22k
Veteran
Location: Long Island, NY

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Hey guys,

I'm currently running a align 400s. I have just completed my jet ranger fuse. I'm thinking about getting a lehner 1020/21(2857 rpm/v). I was wondering if this would be a good replacement for the 400s. I don't need such a high headspeed. Looking for a low 2k headspeed.

I run lehners in my r/c cars...have a 1930/4 in one of them. The power feels limitless lol. I'm just not too familiar with choosing a good motor for helis.

Thanks,
Keith
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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Rastaman
Heliman
Location: La Suede

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Hey!

Depending on the pinion you'll use you'll get different headspeed.
Kv=2857x11V=31427 motor rpm (unloaded)
10t pinion, gearing 1:15
11t pinion, gearing 1:13.63
13t pinion, gearing 1:11.53
15t pinion, gearing 1:10

Headspeed wanted 2000:

Motor rpm 31427/15(10t piono)=headspeed 2095
But I think you'll find that headspeed a little too low, the heli will be kinda sluggish in my opinion.

/Stefan
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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yf22k
Veteran
Location: Long Island, NY

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so you're thinking i should go with a lower turn(lower torque) motor and smaller pinion instead of a higher turn(higher torque) motor and say an 11-13 tooth pinion?

Thanks,
Keith
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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Rastaman
Heliman
Location: La Suede

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With the Lehners you don't have to decide on that, they are both

More torque is always good, but it's difficult choice.

I want the highest headspeed possible to the lowest ampdraw possible....
I love high headspeed, makes flips/rolls easy and makes the heli more stabile, and you can crank up the gyro gain. But it's just my humble opinion!

/Stefan
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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yf22k
Veteran
Location: Long Island, NY

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Ok. I'll try the 21 turn...I don't need the high headspeed for crusing around with a scaler. I'll post back when i get it.

Thanks,
Keith
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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Laurens
Key Veteran
Location: Oegstgeest, NL

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Let me guess what motor I'll be picking up at Intermodellbau

TeamFlightpower, Team Flighttech
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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Torkroll
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield Ca

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" HS is around 2800 AND it still pulls above 30 Amps with max power between 460-500 Watts!!! "



Insane.

Isn't 750 watts or so equal to 1 horsepower ?
02-11-2005 Over year old.
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Laurens
Key Veteran
Location: Oegstgeest, NL

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Yes 750 = 1 HP

TeamFlightpower, Team Flighttech
02-12-2005 Over year old.
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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I had a question on RC Groups:

Quote 
have a question. The Lehners are essentially two motors in one. This one is 3529KV and can be soldered to be 3529/1.73 = 2039 KV I just had a friend who is good in German translate the pdf on how to do it. It's not that difficult, basically I would need to unsolder 3 connections and resolder 3 different connections on the bottom of the motor.

I am at a little dilemma here. To get 2800rmp HS I would need to use a 14t pinion at 100% throttle or 15t on lower throttle setting to give the governor some headroom. So which would be more powerful/better 3529KV running on 10t pinion at 50% throttle or 2039KV running on 15t pinion at lets say 90%? It's higher gearing (more torque) vs lower gearing (less torque) and not efficient running vs more efficient throttle setting. Which one do you think would be better?

Nam


And Steve (who builds the Neu motors) answered:

Quote 
The bottom line is that other things determine the "power". By changing the motor winding tie points you have only changed the Kv of the motor. How much power the motor can produce remains the same. There is no magic here. In one case you will be using a larger number of lower capacity cell for higher voltage in the other case, fewer cells and higher current. Motor produces pretty much the same # of watts in both cases. As has been the case in the T-rex motor quest--the battery is the main issue --not the motor. Of course a efficient motor is always good but with that given the battery is the key.

Don't ever try to use the throttle to run at 50%--you will cook not only the controller but the motor will run very hot also. Run as close to 100% as possible.

Steve  



Actually I am not using smaller cells when I go up in cell count, that is why the power is not the same but greater. For example when I go 4S I don't use 4x TP1320s but 4x TP2100s.

Anyway I am sure he is right about the throttle setting being as close to 100% as possible is the best (as we all know). But how important is it to keep to this?

I was flying yesterday with 4S TP2100 and throttle set at 50% and the motor was "only" 160º with battery temp at 110º and ESC temp at a low 60º. These are not THAT bad numbers. I don't think (hope) anything will fry at these temps.

I am sure if I brought down the KV to 2039 and ran lets say 90% throttle everything would be even cooler, but if I stick on a 15t pinion vs a 10t pinion (what I have now) wouldn't that demand more from the motor making it hotter? So would the going down on the KV and setting higher throttle benefits outweigh the extra stress (lower gearing) a 15t pinion will cause? What do you think?
02-12-2005 Over year old.
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dnamVeteran - Location: Herndon, VA - USA - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Now this is what I call a crash! :D

I was doing some inverted hovering and then tried to move around a little when I gave a wrong stick input. Here is what happened. I think the setup is indeed pretty powerful (I was only like 6-8 feet off the fround).





Strange thing is that the head really stayed intact, so it was more a sideways impacts.

02-13-2005 Over year old.
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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > My T-rex with CCPM conversion + TOP MOUNT motor + badass LEHNER
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