RR Rated M For Mature
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 508 ONLINE 18 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
9 pages [ <<    <     6      7     ( 8 )     9     NEXT    >> ]57790 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

.
.
e-Electric General Discussion > DragonFly 4CH RTF Helicopter
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Possible great first heli

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/By...ProdID=EFLH1200

This heli caught my attention immediately for a variety
of reasons, the heli being:
E-flite's Blade CX RTF Electric Coaxial Heli.
It caught my attention primarliy for one reason,
NO tail motor. No tail motor on a micro electric
heli means that it will avoid the tail motor burn-
out problem altogether. I wish this helicopter
was around when I bought my first one knowing
what I do now about electric helicopters, particulary
dual motor ones; that is, one motor for the main rotor
and one motor for the tail rotor. Hind sight is 20/20
as they say, and I would probably still have gone the
DragonFly #4 route even if the E-flite Blade CX heli-
copter was around when I made the choice, since it
was "cheaper". Buy cheap, buy twice, not always true,
but true alot of the time. I really like the Blade CX and
think it would make an excellent first time helicopter,
again, I have never seen one nor flown one, this is just
my humble opinion. It has dual motors driving the rotors,
and comes already with a lipo battery. It is light, but pro-
bably has decent performance, not to mention it is really
slick looking. From what I have been reading, Horizon Hobby
has stood behind the Blade CP, which is pretty impressive
taking into consideration the general lack of support for the
vast majority of electric Chinese made FP helicopters. Again,
I think this helicopter will allow a first time flyer to practice orien-
tations without the worry of burning out tail motors which has
plagued micro dual motor helis since the beginning. Can anyone
comment on how a dual, counter-rotating main rotor blade heli
compares with a single main rotor FP heli in regards to wind gust
susceptibility?? Anyway, I will keep my eyes on this one and if
you are thinking about getting into r/c helicopters for the first time,
this MAY be the way to go over an option like the Walkera DragonFly
#4....

What do you think????
10-29-2005 06:47 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		8 tooth pinion or 9 tooth pinion on Feigao brushless tail motor

Hmmm.... This post concerns itself with using an 8 or
9 toothed pinion on the Feigao brushless tail motor
coupled with the stock Walkera or Esky HoneyBee
tail rotor bevel gear and axle. Prior to purchasing
Loctite 680 "green" compound from DeeTee Enter-
prises, I used Prime Lok Type 245 Blue thread lock
formula to adhere the 9 tooth tail motor pinion onto
the shaft of the Feiago's motor since this was a "glue-
on" type pinion. It lasted a few flights and then the tail
motor pinion broke free, the heli spun out of control and
the 9 tooth pinion actually flew off of the shaft and is some-
where MIA in my garage. Oh well, I was back up and flying
within 15 minutes, I replaced it with my modified stock 8 tooth
brass tail motor pinion that I got from a burn-out stock tail
motor. This one is friction hold and I had to carefully increase
the diameter of the shaft so as to fit onto the Feigao's motor
shaft. I used the "high-authority" tail motor which burnt-out
long ago; that is, its motor shaft as an awl and by using a
wrench, not a hammer, I was able to punch a wider hole through
the brass big enough for it to fit onto the shaft of the Feigao
tail motor. I am a bit surprised in regards to runtime between
the two......they basically run for the same time, there is may be
a 30 second or so difference between the two, however, there
are a fair number of variables that could account for the difference
between the two pinion setups. To be honest, I am not crazy
about the idea of gluing on a motor pinion and I prefer a friction
hold setup as this is what I use to hold the main motor pinion on.
Granted, I now have the Loctite 680 "green" thread locking com-
pound that is tauted for holding on motor pinions, but I have not
actually used it so far. For right now, I have been flying with the
stock 8 tooth tail motor pinion that is literally just stuck onto the
Feigao's motor shaft. The 8 tooth pinion got a little deformed
when I was trying to enlarge its mounting hole; that is, the teeth
around the circumference got a little "curvilinear" on me like the
tracks of a computer CD-ROM, but after playing around with the
gear mesh, I now have it as loose as I ever had even when I was
flying the heli with those terrible stock D/C brushed tail motors. As
best as I can tell, the 9 tooth tail motor pinion appears to produce
a little bit more tail power than the stock modified 8 tooth pinion, while
the 8 tooth pinion appears to run the Feigao tail motor somewhat
cooler after a hovering power endurance test. Again, I have not
fully documented this with a tachometer and a temperature gauge,
since, unfortunately, I do not own those tools, but my setup and my
senses have made me reach this conclusion about the two. In short,
for right now, I prefer the stock modified 8 tooth pinion as it literally
allows the Feigao tail motor to run at very cool temperatures, since
right after a flight, when the flight pack runs down, the Feigao is literally
almost room temperature; that is, its outside motor can and this has
been a consistent observation that I have made concerning this
particular tail setup. As a side note, I used the "high-authority" tail
motor's shaft as an awl to enlarge the stock 8 tooth tail motor pinion,
since I do not own a drill that can drill such a small hole and the
"high-authority" tail motor's motor shaft is the same diameter as the
Feigao's.
11-06-2005 06:47 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Walkera DragonFly #4 with a 10 toothed RK-400SD

This post concerns itself with a very recent modification
I have made to my heli's setup; it concerns itself with using
a "400" class motor on the Walkera #4 FP kit. I would like
to make it known that this was NOT my idea, I am not going
to pretend that I came up with this idea at all. I am a member
at www.rcuniverse.com, my member name is, you guessed it,
dragon_no_fly and I have been keeping an eye on a particular
thread over there, particulary this page within this thread series:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2..._13/key_/tm.htm
; that is, cptsnoopy's post concerning the placement of a 400 sized
main motor on the helicopter. I was so interested about this post
that I went and ordered the RK-380SD main motor to a Walkera
DF-40 CP from www.rc-expert.com I received the motor within just
under a week and had it hooked up within a night. I ordered all the
parts and screws for mounting it as he specified in the post, I ordered
the mounting plate or motor adapter from Horrizon Hobby. I went
for this purchase, because of the very positive results that I encountered
when using my stock RK-370SD with a 12 tooth motor pinion and the
power and relative runtime that I received from it. As far as I can tell,
without the E-flite motor adapter there is no way this motor is going to
fit within the heli, it is considerably larger than the stock RK-370SD
main motor. I couldn't believe how big it was and that it had RK-400SD
stamped onto the side of it, instead of what I was expecting; that is,
RK-380SD. Anyway, I was never able to get the mesh close to as
smooth as I got(after a lot of work) with the stock RK-370SD and 12
tooth main motor pinion. The RK-400SD that I purchased as a re-
placement part for the Walkera DF-40 CP from www.rc-expert.com
had a 10 tooth pinion, NOT the 12 tooth pinion that cptsnoopy had
experimented with. I arrived at this point, because the RK-400SD for
the DF-40 CP was cheaper than the same motor for a Walkera #45.
So, I decided, that this would still be a good test, even though initially
I was hoping to run the test with a 12 tooth pinion on it like cptsnoopy did.
I had to adjust the C/G of the heli by moving the 8-cell Electrify flight
pack aft due to the increased weight of this motor. After(really being lucky)
I was able to get the C/G near perfect as the fore/aft cyclic control trim
on my Futaba transmitter is dead center with the new setup and the heli
has no tendency to move forward or backward. Getting back to the
mesh between the stock Walkera main gear and the new RK-400SD's
10 tooth pinion is NOT ideal at all, there is a lot of "drag" when you try
and turn the main rotor blades by hand. I can not seem to overcome
this no matter what I do, I think it may have to actually do with how the
brass 10 tooth pinion was "cut" and how this interfaces with the stock
main gear's teeth. In any event, on to actual flight results. After playing
around with trim and REVO-mix settings I was able to make a few test
flights. All I can say is that I am impressed with this motor for a few key
reasons and in fact, I have removed the stock RK-370SD with 12 tooth
pinion and now have as part of my standard configuration this new RK-
400SD with 10 tooth pinion. My current REVO-mix settings within my
Futaba T7CHP are: HI @-65%, LO @-80% and only less than 1/4 left
yaw trim. Anymore trim than this and the heli's nose turns RIGHT
throughout the flight as the Feigao brushless tail motor, 8 tooth pinion on
it, stock tail rotor, stock tail rotor drive gear and axle produces so much
power, while running literally cool throughout the flight(I love that!). For
the very first time, I can fly my stock Walkera cabin or canopy with the
"heavy" HiTEC Electron 6 channel receiver, Feigao "long can" brushless
tail motor and have the ability to consistenly exceed 5 minutes of hovering
power duration. In a very recent test flight, I tested hovering power duration
with the new RK-400SD and 10 tooth pinion, I tried as best as I could
to maintain a stationary chest high hover above ground for the duration
of the test and I was able to maintain hovering power for exactly 5 minutes
and 30 seconds! This is huge. I landed and immediately checked the
temperature of the flight pack(Great Planes Electrify 8-cell AAA cell size
650 MAh NiMH) and it was warm, not hot, but the most impressive thing
to me was that the new RK-400SD was ONLY warm, NOT hot. In com-
parision, the stock RK-370SD with a 12 tooth pinion was VERY HOT
right after the same test flight profile. I immediately took off again after
quickly writing down the test value and was able to maintain a stationary
8+ foot high hover at 60% throttle stick deflection all the way up to exactly
the 6 minutes mark, then the heli fairly quickly decended to a few inches
off of the ground even with 90+% throttle stick deflection where I just kept
flying it until the main rotor stopped turning for the very first time at 7
minutes and 31 seconds. Again, I wished I owned a tachometer, but I
do not, the RK-400SD with a 10 tooth pinion appears to produce a little
more power than my stock RK-370SD with a 12 tooth pinion, however,
the RK-400SD allows for a ~45+ second increase in runtime AND runs
at significantly reduced temperatures. As a side note, my GWS ICS-300
brushed main motor ESC has a "dead spot" in it; that is, the main rotor
does not start spinning until I push the throttle stick forward until about the
20% open position. Taking the previous into consideration, the heli
can drift up into the ceiling of my garage which is 12 feet high with only
60% throttle stick deflection on a fresher flight pack, furthermore, the heli
has a lot of getaway power if you really push on the throttle and is able
to still gain relatively significant altitudes even after 5 minutes of just
hovering using a lowly 650 MAh NiMH main battery pack. I am very
pleased with the results of this and highly recommend this as an upgrade
to your heli even if you fly with the stock Walkera 4-in-1 control board.
Soon, I would like to test the heli with this motor, but with a 12 tooth
pinion, my guess is that setup will really help to make the helicopter
more of an outdoor machine, but the RK-400SD will more than likely
run hotter than it does currently with the 10 tooth pinion on it. As for run-
time I am not exactly sure, test flights will solve that mystery. In short,
get this upgrade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11-06-2005 07:44 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
R0XoRiZoR
Veteran
Location: Austin, Texas - US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		im tellin ya... the more you write, the more i want to get one and follow this topic
:-)
11-07-2005 05:52 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Closing the circle on orientations

Rox, how's your heli flying? Yeah, I have to admit,
I am starting to wonder what a 12 tooth pinion will
do to my lowly DragonFly #4 with a RK-400SD in
it. My guess is that, it will haul ....well you know the
rest. I have to remember that that motor is placed in a
-35 or -45 which are bigger machines, besides, that
one RK-400SD has to not only drive the main rotor
blades, but also couple some of its power to a drive
shaft or belt drive to spin a tail rotor. In my case, the
RK-400SD with 12 tooth pinion just has to drive the
main rotor, while a powerful brushless motor spins the
tail rotor. Couple this with high-lift, fixed pitch main rotor
blades and I am almost positive that motor will really
move this heli. I am still waiting for the pinion to come in.
Assuming I can get it in the heli and get it working for
tests, I will definitely post my results.


Right now, for a change, I have a reliable machine that I
can fly charge after charge with little to no incidents any-
more, this has allowed me to tackle what I call: "closing
the circle on orientations". What I mean is, being able to
repeatedly fly the heli at very odd angles from your per-
spective, not just the classic pure nose-in or pure tail-in.
A good example of this would be trying to hover the heli
at a pure 90 degree offset or aspect from your perspective,
whether the heli is right up in your face or 20 feet away to
your left and what orientation would be needed to fly it cor-
rectly; that is, Normal Orientation(left means left) or Reverse
Orientation(left means right). I have found my brain struggling
at a few times and I actually caught myself a few times doing
RO when the helicopter could have been flown much more
easily with a NO mindset. Another "hard" hovering or slow flight
aspect would be the heli's nose facing you(semi-nose-in),
but at a 45 degree angle off of a pure nose-in. Well, anyway,
the whole idea is to be as stationary as a telephone pole, but be
able to fly your heli at ANY possible orientation from you and keep
the heli within your field of view. Does anyone want to comment
on this?
11-10-2005 03:00 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
R0XoRiZoR
Veteran
Location: Austin, Texas - US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My DF#35 sufferered a brushless controller meltdown....
Almost lost my bird in the process...

Turns out the Walkera controller had a few "shorted" etches on the circuit board.. it was really obvious when i took the controller apart, as to what the cause was... Lost a lipo batt pack as it was technically "shorted" and now gets hot when charged... tossed that one..

I have a CC35 brushless controller in the mail from a RR seller, should be here saturday/early next week. I'm looking forward to putting some real time on that bird...

p.s. i think i convinced my girlfriend to order me a #4 for christmas :-)
11-10-2005 07:39 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		DF-35 meltdown

R0X, Walkera electronics stink! Man, sorry to hear about your
DF-35, good thing you didn't lose your main motor or
that thing would have fell out of the air like a stone.
Yeah, I have been reading about the nasty character-
istics of Lipos. One of the things they mention is NEVER
short the leads. I usually do this with my NiMH packs
when I need to solder on a new connector; I just take
a metal tin snip and cut the connector off, which for a
short time shorts both leads and you get a small short
blue spark. Do that with a Lipo and they recommend
quickly placing it outside on concrete and watching it
for at least 30 minutes as it can definitely swell-up and
explode. What can I say about my Phoenix-10? All I
can say is..........get one. I love my Phoenix-10, it just
works time and time again. I think you will love your
CC35. So you want a #4?? You must like punishment
11-11-2005 02:58 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Radio Interference

I think a micro electric helicopter's environment
is full of potential items that can significantly re-
duce the reception capabilites of the onboard
receiver. Case in point, I was out zipping around
my backyard this weekend with my #4 and was
surprised to find my heli doing some twitching in
the air at about 30 feet away. The indicated voltage
on my Futaba T7CHP was: 10.6 volts, this should
be enough I thought, coupled with the excellent rec-
eption capabilities inherent in the HiTEC Electron
6 channel receiver. I was wrong. I extended the
transmitter's antenna as far as it went and flew ar-
ound not letting the helicopter get too far away from
me. I landed after the charge went down and just
decided to unwrap the vast majority of the receiver's
antennae wire as almost all of it was originally coiled around
the left landing gear skid of the heli; that is, I just let
the antennae aerial hang freely from the heli with only
2-3 turns left around the left landing gear skid. I re-
placed the spent pack with a new one and did not
re-charge the Futaba transmitter's battery pack. I took
off again and was surprised at the results....no inter-
ference whatsoever. Now, granted, there may have been
some EMI in the air at the time that caused the glitches
and/or some hard to find inherent EMI cause(s) within
my heli, but I have made about 5 flights after doing this
and not one has encountered EMI. Another thing I have
noticed about radio glitches is that they seem to mani-
fest themselves in my heli in two circumstances, one
when flying in a pure nose-in and two when flying more than
30 feet away. I have placed the HiTEC Electron 6 channel
receiver right on the plastic extension where the original
Walkera 4-in-1 controller used to sit in its black plastic
molded case. It is right up front by the main motor, by
itself, with its top cover off so as to reduce weight. I used
to have the receiver right under where the CF tail boom
meets the main frame of the heli towards the rear, but I had
to move it for weight and C/G setup issues. I guess my
experience shows a simple, overlooked item, at least
what I was doing!; always do range checks and always
have as much antennae aerial as possible exposed so
as to receive signals from the transmitter..........duh dragon_
not_fly!!!!!!
11-13-2005 06:30 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
R0XoRiZoR
Veteran
Location: Austin, Texas - US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		frustration

I think i may be really near my breaking point with my poor walkera...

Finally got my CC35 installed, fired up the new batt as well.

Got air for maybe 2 seconds and it hit the dirt...

Got it trimmed out properly... and then all the sudden i lose all tail control. It just piro'd strait into the dirt...

I can tell already i need 2 main grips, blades, tail crown gear, fly bar.

I feel like throwing the whole thing away and starting new with a r30.

My luck just sucks... i was really fighting for this one here on RR as well... guess i spoke to soon

:-(
11-18-2005 10:54 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got tired of burning out tail motors and having to replace various parts due to them some time ago.

Still haven't gotten around to throwing what's left of it away...
11-19-2005 02:46 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		frustration -- friend or foe?

R0XoRiZoR, I can fully understand your frustration,
that really stinks what happened to you, I would be
totally lying to you that I have not day dreamed about
taking my foot and literally smashing my little devil
#4 into pieces, there was one time that I almost did,
but I didn't and I am glad that I did not. I think frustration
has driven me to make this inadequate little sub-100 USD
r/c heli better. Ok, to your heli, what was maintaining REVO-
mix within your setup? Are you using a computer trans-
mitter to do this? Are you using a heading hold gyro and if
so, is it the Walkera HH gyro? Was the tail rotor spinning at
all at lift off? Did it piro to the left or to the right as viewed
from the rear of the heli when it lost control?
11-19-2005 05:18 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Tail motor burnout, not flyer burnout

ShellDude, I totally agree with you about what you did
with your heli, in fact, if I did not go to a brushless tail
and all separates, but instead, just kept trying to fly the
heli with the stock Walkera 4-in-1 controller, I would have
probably given up as well for basic frustration and eco-
nomic reasons. Case in point, I purchased my Walkera
DragonFly #4 literally almost 1 year ago to the day and
I did not fly it around at all for about 2 weeks until I got
training gear on it, which at the time, was not offered with
the kit. Again, I flew those many first flights with the stock
all-in-one(4-in-1) controller board and after looking at my
flight journal book(the very first one I ever made) the original
tail motor burned completely out on the 29TH flight. I replaced
this and then the replacement motor burned out and stopped
working after only 11 flights. Soon after this, the main motor,
the RK-370SD also wore down and I was unable to break a 2
foot high hover. I learned from early on, at least in my own per-
sonal experiences with this heli and the stock electronics that
it was a losing battle and the stock electronics were murder
on the cheap little "whisker" brushes in the D/C tail motors. I
decided that this was probably a worthwhile hobby, since I was
fascinated that a small all electrically driven r/c helicopter was
flying around my house under my control, so I decided to take
the "separates" plunge.....it has not been easy at all, but in the long
run, definitely worth it. At the time of writing this post, I now
have literally 115 flights on the same tail motor, that tail motor
being the Feigao "long can" brushless motor.
11-19-2005 05:32 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Walkera DragonFly #4 with a 12 toothed RK-400SD

Now for some real fun The pinion, actually a
new RK-400SD with a 12 tooth pinion on it,
a stock replacement item for a Walkera Dragon
Fly #45 came in early this week in the mail. I
decided to order a new motor, since I now have
a backup spare just in case. I ordered the motor
from http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/index.php and
I was fairly impressed with their site and with the
motor kit when it came in the mail from Hong Kong.
I say "kit", because I had to solder on the motor
leads and capacitors, unlike with the original RK-400SD
with 10 tooth pinion I received as a replacement part
for the Walkera DragonFly #40 CP that was all ready
to go. Needless to say, I was very eager to try this
setup out, no, in fact, I wasted no time with it as I worked
late into the evening with it after work when it first came
in the mail. I removed the 10 tooth one, soldered on
the new motor leads and capacitors, reversed the polarity
of the setup which is necessary for my setup so that the
main rotor spins in the right direction!, set it up on the
E-flite motor adapter and got the mesh really smooth which
I found a bit surprising. I then took a fully charged 8-cell
Electrify 650 MAh flight pack and went for a spin with it in
the still air of my garage to see how the heli would handle
and what the REVO-mix was like. Well, what I can say, this
mod for my setup is a show stopper. On a fresh pack, I am
able to maintain an 8 foot high hover at 60% throttle stick de-
flection.......yes, an 8 foot high hover, where before with the
same motor, but with a 10 tooth pinion this was chest high.
The new motor/pinion setup will easily fly the heli straight into
the 12 foot high ceiling of my garage at anything above 60%
throttle stick deflection, no joking. Remember, my setup; that is,
GWS ICS-300 main motor ESC appears to have a "dead spot"
in it where the main rotor does not start spinning until I have about
20% throttle stick deflection on my Futaba T7CHP engaged.
There is no question in my mind that torque has increased sig-
nificantly with this mod, since not a single parameter was changed
in the heli's setup except for the removal of a 10 tooth main motor
pinion and the addition of a 12 tooth pinion(on a new motor). I
have more head speed and you can definitely hear the stock
plastic main rotor blades beating the air. I compensated for a
lack of very close REVO-mix by holding in some right rudder
throughout the flight and was able to keep the nose and tail per-
fectly straight. As for numbers, well the heli maintained an 8 foot
high hover at 60-65% throttle stick deflection right at the 5 minutes
and 15 seconds mark where the heli then started to really lose
power. The main rotor stopped turning on the ground for the very
first time at the 6 minutes and 45 seconds mark. Right after the
5 minutes and 15 seconds mark, I landed briefly to write down the
hovering power duration value, then I took right off again and the
heli was able to maintain another 8 foot high hover at 60% throttle
stick deflection for another 30 seconds, then at this point, the NiMH
battery dumped and I quickly drifted into a 2 inch high hover at 90+%
throttle stick deflection where I just kept "flying" until the main motor
died on the ground. One of the most important things about this mod-
ification is the ability of the heli to gain significant heights, relatively
speaking, throughout the entire flight; that is, I have power all the way
up to the point when the battery starts to really sag in available volts.
After the main motor died on the ground for the very first time, I im-
mediatley checked the heat on the main motor.....I could not believe
it, it was literally only warm, not even close to being really warm, let
alone hot and in fact, it was cooler to the touch than the other RK-400SD
with 10 tooth pinion. I checked the Feigao brushless tail motor with
its 9 tooth pinion(more on that later) and it was literally room temp-
erature. I wrote down the results and on the second flight I then mod-
fied the REVO-mix; that is, I increased it to compensate for the increase
in main rotor torque by 20 percentage points for both the LO and HI
stick positions. New REVO-mix settings for the 12 tooth main motor
pinion: HI @ -85%, LO @ -60% and with a starting rudder trim tab po-
sition of half way between the first "bar" in the display from left to right
on the Futaba T7CHP transmitter. A note on REVO-mix; it will NEVER
be perfect on an electric heli that has a motor for the main rotor and a
motor for the tail rotor due to sagging flight pack voltage coupled with
a non-heading hold gyro(rate gyro). Yes, I could get the REVO-mix to
the point where the heli's nose and tail are in perfect line with one
another on a fresh pack with the rudder trim tab dead center, but as
the flight progresses and the battery is subjected to load over time it
will produce less volts and amps such that the REVO-mix will change
holding all other things constant, where more right rudder will be needed
to keep the nose and tail straight to compensate for the new environ-
ment. Needless to say, the new REVO-mix works really well and only
requires a few clicks of right rudder trim throughout the flight to com-
pensate for the fact of falling voltage. Getting back to the heli with the
new 12 tooth pinion on a RK-400SD main motor. The same results were
also witnessed by me outdoors in my backyard, concerning getaway power, hovering power duration with power and main motor heat after a flight as
was witnessed in my garage. I have never flown the heli with so much
power before, inside, it is a beast and is a positive blast to motor all around the air of my garage including hovering steadily from within 1-1.5 feet of
my 12 foot high ceiling! LiPO flyers......if you fly LiPO, 2-3 cells, particulary 3-cells, that will make even more of a difference in available power and power over duration compared with an all stock setup. Bottomline, get this....this is the mod I have been waiting for, besides the significant
increase in power and runtime of LiPO batteries.
11-19-2005 06:55 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
R0XoRiZoR
Veteran
Location: Austin, Texas - US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		upon further review... turns out it was my fault... which makes me even madder!

Apparently sometime during the course of getting her setup with the new CC35, i must have let the tail touch the ground. The bevel gears in the tail case were totally stripped out... which tells me that during the crash the tail hit the ground again, or it was previously stripped out... That would of course tell me why the tail lost all control during flight and forced me to crash.

After looking over the bird this weekend, with thoughts of chunking it in the trash can... i realized this is why i got into the hobby anyhow. The thrill of your concoction of parts and labor actually acheiving flight, and the investigations and repairs... thats all the fun stuff..

I am currently saving up some money for a new transmitter.

I use the stock transmitter right now, even with its bizarre EXP rates and curves... i managed to survive this long. But i think its time to get that upgrade out of the way... When i get tired of crashin this heli, ill have a radio to transfer to another bird.

After reading your posts again, and seeing your flights in the 100's... it really gets me motivated to get something going. I would be happy as hell to have just 10 flights under my belt with this one.

List of replacements:

Shogun tail shaft
Shogun "Blue" tail gears
Shogun tail rotor shaft
Shogun tail blade grips
Shogun main blade grips
Shogun Main shaft
Shogun flybar
Shogun flybar paddles and weights
Align 305mm blades

OR!

E-flight Blade CP

hehe

r0x
11-21-2005 02:56 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		1 Year Anniversary

Well, exactly 1 year ago today, was the very first time
that I charged up one of the batteries on my Walkera
#4 for 1 hour using the stock wall charger and then
running the helicopter for the very first time on the
ground secured so as not to take off. It's right in my
flight journal book, the very first one and the very first
entry. I have learned much about these micro helis
and I can honestly say that I have mixed emotions about
the whole thing. It has not been what I have expected,
it has been much harder and less rewarding for two reasons.
The first reason, I was unpleasantly suprised on how diffi-
cult it has been to actually fly the helicopter around well, par-
ticulary in smooth fast forward flight and the second reason,
was the very unpleasant and very annoying fact of having to
completely go to separate components with all the setup issues
with that, while thinking about the future. The second reason
has without a doubt reduced stick time or flying experience
considerably for me. As a caveat, I have learned a tremendous
amount of information about the structure of a micro helicopter
and the electronics that keep it flying in the air. Right now, at the
day of this post, the two main complaints I have with this helicopter
even in my full "separates" setup are the following: the lack of flying
time(5.5 minutes) and the very poor flying qualities of this machine
outside in breezes and light winds. The last two complaints, without
a question have really hampered me from learning more about how
a model helicopter flies, since the flying times are short, while the
poor flying qualities outside in winds have significantly reduced my
practice time of fast forward flight, large turns at speed, stall turns etc...;
i.e, more advanced sport flying. The reduced flight times can be
rectified with LiPO batteries currently, but I do not have the infrastructure
/money now to support them, while the poor handling qualities outside
can not easily be fixed. Not being able to fly outside a lot of the time, forces
me to fly in my garage, which only allows me to do nose-in hovers, tail
in hovers, slow turns left and right and piros. In door flight, in my situation,
does not allow me to practice fast forward flight and other manuevers
coupled with this. In my humble opinion, these things can not be easily
overlooked and with a stock(structure) setup, this helicopter makes a fairly
good machine at practising orientations at slow flying conditions. I have
been thinking about the future and how to progress to get there; e.g., an
ESky Honey Bee CP with a LiPO setup, but sometimes I am not sure that
this may be the right solution for me. At any rate, it is what is I guess and
for right now, my plan is to "fly-the-crap" out of the current setup to see how
far it will go and how much flying time outside I can get. I may start to really
look into a LiPO setup just so that I can get as much flying time as possible
with X number of batteries and charger(s). I have been reading about LiPO
chargers that now have built-in cell balancers in them, this is a good thing,
especially if you fly with more than 2-cells. There is now a LiPO charger
that can simultaneously charge 4 LiPO batteries at the very same time....that
is awesome. Imagine charging 4 860 MAh 3-cell LiPOs at the same time, say
it takes 1.25 hours to charge them and you get 10 minute flights with them.
That would be great for the field. Or, better yet, 4 LiPOs at 1320 MAh capacity
that give you consistent 15 minutes of flying time, spread across 4 batteries,
that is a full 60 minutes or 1 hour of flying time!
11-24-2005 05:39 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Windy conditions

As your probably already know from flying the
Walkera #4 or other micro helicopters, part-
iculary with stock main blades in a fixed pitch
arrangement, you have encountered many
difficulties with wind outside and control. You
can(correctly) argue that much of the poor
gust response of the helicopter is attributed to
flying weight, but this is not the complete picture.
There is no question, holding all other things con-
stant, that a heavier machine should have better
wind performance over the same setup that is lighter.
The problem with weight in a EPS(Electric Power Sys-
tem) is reduced flying time, generally speaking. From what
I have been reading, one of the most significant items that
can be modified to combat the wind is the rotor assembly/blade
setup itself. For instance, the same weight helicopter
with all the same electronics, motors and battery, but
with a full collective rotor head and fully symmetrical
main rotor blades will be a good deal better at handling
wind than the same helicopter with a fixed pitch rotor
assembly and high pitch main rotor blades. Taking it
further, the same helicopter with the collective rotor head,
fully symmetrical main rotor blades, but with a significantly
higher head speed will be that much more capable of hand-
ling windy conditions than its fixed pitch cousin. So, the best
way to handle wind, besides flying weight, is to have a collec-
tive rotor head, high head speed and fully symmetrical main
rotor blades, generally speaking. What would be interesting
in the future would be what I call a "position hold" gyro; that is,
an "auto-pilot" light enough and small enough to fit on a micro
that will hold its position/flying speed/attitude/bank with no
control inputs from you the flyer. Right now I am making this up,
who knows it may already exist in some fashion and/or I am getting
it wrong, but anyway, with that said, imagine being outside in 10+ mph
winds and flying your heli where you made a turn and the onboard
computer compensates for the wind, such that, your turn is what you
expect in terms of altitude, airspeed and bank and not what you expect
, because of the relatively strong wind component...
11-24-2005 06:00 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Weighted main rotor blades

I have had this nagging idea in my head concerning
my Walkera #4 and the main blades. Currently, I still
fly with the black plastic main rotor blades with the high
pitch or twist to them. As you probably already know,
these types of blades on fixed pitch setups are notorious
for "coning" and other undesirable forward flight pitch up
stituations. I was wondering, has anyone tried placing
small weights on the very tips of the blades to make the
main rotor blades more massive? If so, what has this
done to head speed and did this keep the blades more
level; that is, reduce the coning effect to achieve more
level fast forward flight? I might try a simple test flight with
a penny on one blade tip and another penny on the other
blade tip making sure that the blades are the same weight
and track correctly, to see what this will do to flying qualities
such as: forward flight, getaway power, flight duration etc...
over the exact same setup, but without the weights.
11-24-2005 06:08 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Preflight checklists

R0XoRiZoR, from one US flyer to another, have a good
Thanksgiving. I read your last post and now understand
what happened. In my humble opinion, I would avoid
shaft driven rotors that rely upon a bevel gear of some kind
for transmission of power. In other words, I would only get
a good quality, proven belt driven tail rotor. Rox, how close
is the DF-35 to a Zap/Zoom 400? Do a lot of the same parts
work? Have you looked into getting the Zap/Zoom 400 that
already has a belt driven tail or for that matter, a DF-36? I
think a DF-36 with its belt drive and GOOD electronics would
be a serious CP heli to learn off of. Getting back to preflight
checklists, I know this sounds silly, but is it? Going back in time,
I was flying at night in my garage and encountered a complete
failure of one of the stock Walkera servos. Here's what happened,
the servo failed in the last flight on the ground when I was running
down the pack after the battery had given its all. I did not know
or realize at the time the stock Walkera servo had failed that controlled
left/right roll cyclic. The servo failed in a deflected position; that is,
with the swash plate titled to make a right banking turn. I replaced the
spent NiMH flight pack with a freshly charged one and then proceeded
to take off again, however, the heli immediatley banked right and crashed
into a parked bike in my garage. I ran over to it and was very annoyed
and surprised that the heli did this. I looked it over and luckily there was
no damage to it. I placed the heli back in the center of my garage and took
off again. Ouch! The heli quickly scooted right and slammed into the bike
again hard! I saw red briefly, but this time I glanced down at my hands
giving left roll cyclic to compensate, just to make sure that I was actually
trying to do something about the heli's erradic flight, while I quickly looked
up again seeing it scoot very quickly right. I instictively at this time, killed
the throttle and this time the heli made a fairly hard landing, but did not
slam into the parked bike. I walked over to it and ran some tests, it took
me a short while to realize that the stock Walkera left/right roll cyclic
control servo was not at all responding to my control inputs and the
swash plate was tilted right and nothing was doing anything about this!
I replaced all cyclic control servos with the excellent quality, for the price
, HiTEC HS-55s since that incident. What this entire situation has caused
me to do; that is, changed the way that I fly my helicopter, is that, I will do a
very simple preflight on it on EVERY SINGLE flight. I will not allow the
heli to get light on its skids let alone take off unless all cyclic control servos
are operating under my direct control and there is not a single radio glitch
encountered, if this is the case, then and only then will I spool up the main
rotor, get light on the skids and take off. I hope this helps, I certainly learned
from it.
11-24-2005 06:34 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It's cold out, where's my power?

As you probably know already from reading this long
winded thread, I am currently still flying my little devil
Walkera Dragonfly #4 using an 8-cell NiMH 650 MAh
flight pack. I have been noticing over the past few weeks,
that I have been losing substanial flight power at times
when flying outdoors. As an aside, I have been trying to fly
the heli every chance I can get now outside, not inside.
I live in a temperate climate and right now it is pretty cold
outside. Just yesterday I made a flight outdoors in fairly
light breezes, ok, it was a bumpy flight, but I still managed to
zip around all over my backyard. The ambient air temperature
outside was 38 degrees F. I fully charged the Great Planes
Electrify 8-cell 650 MAh NiMH flight pack on my charger and
then went right outside. I spooled up the rotors, got light on the
skids and took off, but this time at 70% throttle stick deflection
I was only able to manage a waist high hover or waist high forward
flight doing turns over the rocks of my backyard, yeah I know, stupid,
not enough altitude. As the flight progressed I started getting more
flight power and half way through the flight, I had normal flight power
which is not half bad anymore, due to the RK-400SD and 12 tooth
pinion and "lightened" structure of the heli. I made another flight in
my garage, since it had gotten dark out with probably the same flight
pack and lo and behold I had normal rapid getaway power as usual.
I noticed this same problem a few other times in the past few weeks
when flying outdoors in colder weather. The only thing that I can think
of that could potentially cause this would be the NiMH battery packs.
They seem to NOT be able to sustain normal chemical reactions and
thus discharge C in cooler to cold weather as they normally do at 70
degrees F and above. I have stumbled upon this brief discussion con-
cerning this problem over here: http://rechargeablebatteryinfo.com/...temperature.php

[Article]
Does cold weather affect the performance of NiMH rechargeable batteries?
By Editor - RechargheableBatteryInfo.com
Oct 27, 2005, 22:20

Email this article
Printer friendly page
ANSWER:

Since the chemical reactions inside rechargeable batteries become weaker when the temperatures are extremely low, the batteries will not be able to provide their usual performance. (This is a common characteristic of all batteries.)

When using NiMH rechargeable batteries at temperatures below 40 degrees Fahrenheit ( 4 Degrees Celsius ), we recommend charging your rechargeable batteries for 3–8 minutes to help provide the catalyst to activate the chemical process and also warming your rechargeable batteries. This will normally allow your rechargeable batteries to provide their normal performance levels, or at least until they cool off again.

© Copyright by RechargeableBatteryInfo.com
[/Article]

Again, that is copyrighted content, but I am giving them credit, those are
not my words. Does anyone want to comment on their experiences with
LiPO batteries and cold weather and if this has affected flight performance?
12-11-2005 04:40 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It's Official -- Walkera Dragonfly 22E

Well, what can I say, with some help from family
as my Christmas gift, I have recently ordered the
Walkera Dragonfly 22E! After a lot of research
I believe this heli is very overlooked and has tre-
mendous potential. First off, I ordered the complete
kit from www.rc-expert.com for $99.90 and I also ordered
with it a micro heli pitch gauge scale. They do have a
bare bones kit with only the motors for like $82 USD, but
for $18 more I rather get something that I can potentially
get up into the air quickly with to test and fly two helis at
the same time, then hopefully, if all goes well, transition
all of the electronics of my current heli onto the new 22E.
So why the 22E and not an Esky HoneyBee 2 CP or Blade
CP??? Well, right now, I am sick and tired of having to
glue parts together on a heli, particulary the tail boom and
tail motor mount. Right now, both the Blade CP and Esky
HoneyBee 2 CP are constructed this way. I have taken a
very close look at the structure of the 22E and it is essentially
a bolt together kit(NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), this appears to include
the tail motor mount and even the tail boom!! I got the V2 ver-
sion, this one comes with an aluminum alloy rotor head block,
chassis and tail boom! No more CF and cracking issues. Yes,
you can bend aluminum, but hopefully I can work with that. OK,
I still have more to say about this beautiful looking bird in my hum-
ble opinion. If I were to use my Futaba T7CHP to control it, that
setup would be a true eCCPM setup or electronic Cyclic Collective
Pitch Mixing system, since all three servos are setup directly attached
to the swash plate with no mechanical mixing in a offset or inverse
HR3 setup? Can anyone verify that the swashplate setup is a 180 de-
gree inverse HR3 setup. If using the Walkera tranny and onboard
electronics, from what I have been reading, the CCPM complexity
is offloaded onto the onboard 4-in-1 controller board and is not done
in the Walkera transmitter. OK, it is not a variable pitch tail rotor setup
which, when setup correctly, provides superior performance, yes the
lousy tail motor will burn out, but I have a solution to that.....Castle
Creations Phoenix-10 with Feigao long can brushless tail motor. Since
it is not a variable pitch tail rotor setup, but uses a tail motor, I do not
have to worry about stripping out tail gears. Yes, a tail motor is no-
where near as superior to a variable pitch tail rotor with a proven belt
drive setup, but a tail motor is less mechanically complex, has less
parts and has the potential of lasting a long time(brushless). This heli
is a definite clone of the legendary MS Composit Hornet II, except it
has a tail motor, it is also very close to the Walkera 22A CP in design
and parts. When I was ordering a new first time CP kit, I started
to get frustrated over the general lack of information about this particular
heli, there only seemed to be sellers, little to no videos or posts on web-
sites about the machine, until I stumbled upon this great news. Here is
what I have found: http://www.venom-aircorps.com/product/vnr3d.htm
AND, most importantly this: http://www.venom-aircorps.com/manuals/VNR3D_Manual.pdf
Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A manual written in US English, with color pictures,
well structured, has full instructions on how to setup the convoluted Walkera
stock transmitter and even tells you how to do aerobatics with it! That was
the thing that made me go out and buy the 22E right away. As far as I can
tell, the Venom Night Ranger 3D IS a Walkera 22E with a black and green
coloring scheme, a good US English manual and hopefully some product
support. I am going to try the "Walkera" way of doing things; that is, try and
get the heli flying using all stock components and then hopefully, trans-
ition to my Futaba T7CHP and "separates" components. As a side note,
Venom has just released a brushless upgrade kit for this heli.........the main
motor appears to be a Feigao long can motor with a 12 tooth pinion, but
I could definitely be wrong about that. Once, hopefully I get the machine in
from rc-expert, I am going to start a new thread on Runryder about this
machine and all of the problems, frustrations, annoyances and fun that it
will dish out to me....
12-11-2005 05:12 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
9 pages [ <<    <     6      7     ( 8 )     9     NEXT    >> ]57790 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

.
.
e-Electric General Discussion > DragonFly 4CH RTF Helicopter
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Monday, November 23 - 6:14 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2009 runryder.com | email | link to rr | START HERE | NF