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Hobby Hut . Heli Wholesaler . JR-Spektrum

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > 9303-eCCPM-Channel 6 Behind/Lagging - Confirmed
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

vtolnut,
I think several of your questions/points are answered in this thread: http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t171302p1/ with respect to the receiver output of various tx/rx combos. The 14MZ with the 5019 DPS is better than the Stylus but only barely.

Also, a few things you mention are available on the Stylus. Each channel of the eCCPM control can be independently adjusted for speed.

> I know that the 14MZ is touted to be the only one that you can mix out
> all of the interaction,

Surprisingly, the Stylus actually has MORE adjustments and parameters to tweak for an eCCPM setup than the 14MZ.

> in a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 manner. Not one of the big 3 though.

The JR 649 appears to do exactly that. That is what I saw on the o-scope while looking into all this stuff.

- John
04-23-2005 Over year old.
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vtolnut
Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		thanks for the link to the thread. I will spend my time investigating something else

I stand corrected. The JR reciever that I tested in the past was a single conversion ABC & W with a Japanese 10X transmitter.


As far as the comment about the 14MZ "superior" ECCPM capabilities .. that is on the 14 MZ website and I figured that I would be flamed to death by the zealots if I stated otherwise . Amazingly most people that swear that it hands down beats the ATX Stylus have never looked at the features in that radio first hand.

However the rather limited manual and the almost too many ways to skin the same cat in the 14MZ, I have not thrown out the possiblity that with enough killer mixes and those virtual channels, that machines with less that ideal implementations of eccpm( like there is a perfect solution ) may benefit from some implict feature lurking in the software. For that reason I did not challenge the statement on the 14MZ website.
As far as the sequential pulse reciever, is concerned the one that exibited this behavior was a 8 channel FMA reciever (the one bundled with the eccpm capable c o-pilot and before I am flamed by someone on that no, I do not need a co-pilot although it would have been nice to have in 1985)being driven with the Stylus radio in PPM mode.

The main reason that I posted is to back your findings because some resistant to new ideas
04-23-2005 Over year old.
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fc911c
Senior Heliman
Location: Greentown PA, Pike County

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		(9303 Lag issue

Hi all

I was wondering if there is any news on the lag problem or a fix from JR. I need to purchase a JR radio soon. should I just go with the 10X?

Thanks for the help
06-14-2005 Over year old.
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jhodges68
Heliman
Location: Savannah, Georgia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		All newer 9303's do not have the problem. According to Horizon, the early models had the problem and it has since been corrected. I just bought a 9303 and it works great ... as good as my 9ZWCII and a whole lot less complicated !

Email or call Horizon for the scoop !

Johnny Hodges
Savannah, Ga
06-14-2005 Over year old.
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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		> All newer 9303's do not have the problem.

How do you correct an issue which is most likely PCM implementation driven without changing the PCM implementation?

I'll try to get my hands on a "newer" 9303 to test. What is Horizon's definition of "newer"? How does one know if they have a "newer" 9303?

- John
06-14-2005 Over year old.
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asammons
Senior Heliman
Location: Home of the Alamo, San Antonio, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Is there a way to update to a newer firmware? Or perhaps exchange the entire radio for the one that does not have the lagging issue? If so, who do I need to talk to at Horizon and will they be receptive toward an exchange or act like they don't know that 9303 has the issue?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Helis live and helis, but in the end we all get high...
06-15-2005 Over year old.
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jhodges68
Heliman
Location: Savannah, Georgia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Don't know the answer to those questions guys .... just know what I was told buy Horizon/JR.

Scoot over to the RC universe JR support forums and talk the reps !

Johnny Hodges
Savannah, Ga
06-15-2005 Over year old.
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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Johnny,
I suspected and was able to confirm that the issue you are referring to is not the same one I am referring to in this thread. You are referring to the original issue with 140 deg eCCPM which has indeed been rectified.

There is no change to the lag issue.

- John
06-15-2005 Over year old.
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jhodges68
Heliman
Location: Savannah, Georgia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks John .. I saw your post on RCU, hopefully we can get some answers !

BTW, I wonder if the JR 10X has the same problem ?

Johnny Hodges
Savannah, Ga
06-15-2005 Over year old.
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yapjy
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I had this problem last weekend on my Logo 10.
After tweaking for a while, I realised that the travel for pitch(channel 6) is not 100% in both direction. The interaction goes away when I set the pitch to 100%.
Subsequently, I realise that for ccpm, setting the pitch travel should be down in swash mixing and not travel.
I'm using a 10X.
08-08-2005 Over year old.
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QuantumPSI
Elite Veteran
Location: Atlanta, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Has this issue ever been remedied? I'm starting to see its effects in my tic tocs. I'm using 9451s at a regulated 6v (.10sec) and when I do fast collective pumping, the helicopter definitely tends to roll. The ironic part is... i can't ever replicate it on the bench.

Maybe it's just me...

M

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part
03-11-2007 Over year old.
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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		M,
There has been zero change to the 9303 since all this discussion. It is always possible it is a slight discrepancy between the servos under load; but the radio does cause some of it.

Going to the new Spektrum modules will end what this topic is about.

- John
03-12-2007 Over year old.
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QuantumPSI
Elite Veteran
Location: Atlanta, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You know, I heard that the new spektrum modules will actually SLOW down the transmission time of the signals due to the module having to "convert" everything to SS. Is this true?

M

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part
03-12-2007 Over year old.
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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		M,
Reports from those flying the modules are that they feel faster than PCM and have a more locked in feeling.

- John
03-12-2007 Over year old.
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GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		"Feel faster than PCM"

An interesting statement. Right now, the F3C guys are actually slowing down servo response to make the model more manageable in the wind. The 14MZ with 9255s seems so fast, particularly right off center, that a little delay seems to calm everything down and make it work a little better. It's very easy to over-control and get into pilot induced oscillations.
For HD 3D, with massive collective and cyclic deflections for direction change, I could see where a little added speed might be a plus.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
03-12-2007 Over year old.
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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Gordie,
But wouldn't you agree there is a difference between servo slowing and latency? With the former, the servo still starts moving immediately, just at a slower maximum slew rate. With the later, your inputs are just plain delayed.

- John
03-12-2007 Over year old.
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Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Gordie,

The 14mz has the Hysteresis setting but have "you guys" tried the Response setting? Would this control the speed of how often the servos are updated with new stick positions? Default is set to 4. How different does the heli respond when you change this down to 1 or up to 8?

Thanks

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!
03-13-2007 Over year old.
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GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Absolutely

You are absolutely correct, there is a HUGE difference between delay and latency. The 14MZ with the G3 rx is extremely fast, particularly with the 9255 servos which don't spec as well as some others but make torque right off center so they appear faster than they actually are. You get used to it but if you go back to a 1024 rx for some reason, you cannot believe the difference. Even guys that are not extremely advanced fliers can tell the difference.
When I tried the original DX-6, the latency was IMHO so extreme as to make the radio nearly unusable for anything other than park flyers, which is what it was designed for. The DX-7 seems MUCH better although I have very little time on one but the feel is dramatically improved. I'm not sure if it is the same, worse, or better than the 14MZ but TO ME, the 14MZ seems more solid, maybe only because I have so much time on it.
We are currently doing some experimenting with the hysteresis settings among other things in the 14MZ and the jury is still out on this one. One nice thing about the 14MZ (and 12Z) is that you can update the software in the transmitter yourself and keep the transmitter current with any new features added. I have updated mine twice so far and know there is a third coming sometime soon with some new features being added.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
03-13-2007 Over year old.
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giaffa
Senior Heliman
Location: Sao Paulo - BRAZIL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Does anybody knows if the upcoming X9303 will have this issue fixed?

>>> Doing it inverted is better! <<<
04-19-2007 Over year old.
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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Soon to be Los Angeles

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		giaffa,
This will be a non-issue on the X9303 due to how the 9303 actually does do eCCPM calculations quickly and correctly (based on PPM output behavior) and how the Spektrum system correctly transfers all channels each frame. Since the data transferred to the Spektrum part of the radio (via high-speed data link in the integrated solutions like the DX7 and now the X9303) is basically what would have gone to the PPM generator, everything should be just fine.

This issue on the 9303 is undoubtedly caused by the SPCM architecture rather than the radio front-end itself since it does fine in PPM mode. This is similar to how the 14MZ doesn't look any different than a 9Z or 9C when using a PCM1024 receiver (except for slight differences in latency).

- John
04-19-2007 Over year old.
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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > 9303-eCCPM-Channel 6 Behind/Lagging - Confirmed
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