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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV
 
 
EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

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Today I hovered my Twinstar, Hawk IV mechanics without the fuse.

I am running a OS 46FX, Century scale muffler, 15% nitro, 550 Aerotech blades (for now, SAB 550's in waiting).

The engine is close to be tuned and after flying a Hirobo GPH for 9 months and now flying a Freya 91, the Hawk IV is a tad dissappointing.

I find the tail sloppy to start with. There is lots of play in the tail pitch arm. While hovering, it doesn't seem to affect the tail. My Gyro is a 401 w/ 9253 digital servo.

The OS 46 is running well, but the tank foams quite a bit at higher head speeds. The tank is held in place just between the 2 frames with no rubber dampers around it, so the tank will see 100% of any vibration.

The 550's just is not enough blade for the 46FX, so now I am playing with the pitch and throttle curves to get the headspeed consistant.

Century informed me that there is no optional gearing for the 46, so the gearing for the 32 will have to do.

Stability in hover is ok, I also have the flybar weights all the way in. Next thing to do is change the blades to the SAB 550's and see how that works, then dissassemble the mechanics and install in the Twinstar fuse.

I think once I get the kinks worked out, it will be fine.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-13-2002 Over year old.
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DMShanks
Senior Heliman
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

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Remember to carefuly balance (on a high point) everything that spins! Good luck! Dave
07-13-2002 Over year old.
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EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Vibration

I did balance the blades. The heli isn't too bad on the vibration, it is just the tank is not isolated at all from the frame. I may have to install a header tank just too keep the fuel draw consistant.

Even with the higher head speeds, acceleration isn't what I would expect. I think its due to the Aerotech blades. I best SAB's will take care of that issue.

I also plan to look at the linkages in the head and see what adjustments I can make to the pitch. For hover, I am at 68% on point 7 (13 points, 9Z tx) and I would like to get it down in the 50% range so I can control the actual pitch with better resolution.

While at a hover at 3 feet, I hit the throttle hold. The 550's won't auto that well, but that was expected. I really wanted to use my 600 glass CMT's, but they are too long. The tail boom is very short on the scale kits.

A few bugs to work out. I also have a spare tail end from my old GPH that if it fits, I'll replace the Century one. It's all metal and ball bearing. I also have a spare Freya swahplate which will fit as well if the Century swashplate gets too slopy.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-13-2002 Over year old.
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oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

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Hawk IV with OS46

Evan,

If you are running such a light load on the 46 (any 550mm blades) it will become hard to set for a "fat and happy" engine. Specially with an overly restrictive muffler, a light loading (no fuseage), and 32 gearing. (this will eliminate the foaming). Without the proper loading, it will be impossible not to have "lean" spots in the curve that will make the engine run harsh and vibrate causing foaming. As you may know, once the top end needle (main) is set properly, the hover needle is used to set for a smooth hover (no foaming). If the engine is not being loaded properly or has too restrictive an exhaust system then this "happy" hover setting on the idle needle will be hard to find without ending up overly rich at idle (engine will load and not want to run or accelerate). Then you may have to do the "hole" in carb casing mode.

NOTE: see my post lower down on "OS46 in Hawk IV".

1 - Who at Century told you that there is no gearing change for the heli? There may have been some misunderstanding or the info may have been given by a new employee, because there is such a thing. It is the primary drive pinion from the Falcon SE V2 - the 14T unit (the Hawk comes with a 13T one), part #CN2226 I believe.

2 - The stock 550 woody blades are very light and fully symmetrical. For best auto performance at the scale weight (with the fuselage) I would recomend some 550 semi-symmetricals like the FunKey, Hurricane or LT units. If you can afford them the Hi-Product Junior M's.
If you can get some wide chord 560mm units they would help "load" the engine better.

The best way to explain the "lack of performance" is to use a planker example. If one would put a 60 on a 40 size plane, but use the prop from the 40 size plane, he would find he has gained ,more RPM but not much "performance". Like running your car in a lower gear all the time - lot of reves but no go.

Givng us your TX numbers is relatively meaningless without associating them to "pitch" of the blades. You will find that "X" amount of pitch at "Y" rpm may be enough to hover a 6.5 lb. heli, but it will not lift an 8 lb. on the sme blades. That would require an increase in either X or Y or a combination of both. The settings of the pod and boom configuration of the Hawk IV is a lot different then those of my 81/2 lb. Bell 222 or that of my 4 stroke Schweizer 300.

As for the tail control, does it use the Hawk IV system (2mm pushrod through guides), or the old Hawk I " 1mm wire in nylon tube" system?
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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TAILBLADE1
Senior Heliman
Location: Alabama

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GEARS

Im going to have to back "Oldfart" up on this one. Century does have both the 13tooth and the 14 tooth gear and it will make a big difference. I tried both on my Falcon 46 just to see what the results would be and just by changing the pinion gear made about a 200RPM difference. I like the 14 tooth on mine and it keeps my OS 50 happy.


Bruce
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

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Eric
Check out oldfart's full answer to my question "How do you put a bigger engine in a Hawk IV" (he also includes a parts list with part #s)...

http://www.runryder.com/showtopic.h...ger+engine+hawk

I'm going to start building it next week some time, been having too much fun with the 32 to spend time in the garage building but will force myself to do it and will report results.
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

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Century

Oldfart....

Thanks so much for the comments... The 14T pinion will be ordered on Monday.

When I placed my order originally, I do not know who took my order, but that person sent me the wrong bearing upgrade, so that was RMA's back to Century with 2 other defective parts from the kit. The correct bearing upgrade will be in this week sometime.

I switched the stock woodies out for SAB 550's. Aweseom blades, but like you said, too light, full symetrical, not enough load. I still think it may not be enough load even with the 14T pinion.

Century lists a 565 wide Aerotech wood blade for like $23.00. Maybe I should try one. I also think I will post a wanted for 550 semi's, maybe someone has a set they would like to sell.

I did the 46 because I had the motor. Now I am wondering if I should have just stuck with the 32.

Thanks again!

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

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I agree W Oldfart put semi lifting mains on your scaler, you WILL like the difference in hovering and scale flight. ABmodels has em for $28 you cant get any cheaper in price and they fly fine. I have used several sets now both semi and sym and notice no probs with either from this co.
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hawk IV

While hovering today, I was adjusting the hover pitch and found that if I increase the pitch at hover, the heli smoothed out quite a bit. I do not have a tach so I do not know what the headspeed was, but I would guess in the 1450 to 1500 range. Foaming in the tank was gone and looking at the antenna hanging, it wasn't moving.

I checked the pitch and found it to be 6.5 degrees or so. Stick position was about 1/2 stick.

I think with the 14T pinion and 550 semi's, the load will be about right.

The engine is running well with the Centruy scale muffler. Fuel draw hasn't been a problem, I was concerned about tank pressure. I even bought a check valve to put inline, just in case.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

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Glad to hear it is working out, your first post sounded like it would be a rough ride (the warped main gear when you first got it). Do you have a pic you want to post of your heli in flight?
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

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pic

right now I am just hovering the mechanics, the fuse isn't done yet. I'll install the mechanics in the fuse when I get all the details worked out.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

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Did you have any problem with tail rotor control rod stickiness?

I had problems with that (apparently it's common), here's the description and the solution...

http://www.runryder.com/showtopic.h...highlight=filed

I filed down the part that goes in the a fork and now it is much smoother.
07-14-2002 Over year old.
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EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

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swashplate

Today I took out the Hawk IV to have the field guru's check it out. We got the machined smoothed out, but there was still a vibration that we couldn't nail down. Looking at the main shaft and head, we think we found the problem. The swashplate has a lot of play. Another guy at the field had an old Hawk II that is well worn and the swashplate is tighter.

I have a spare Freya swashplate I will install to see if that resolves the problem.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-15-2002 Over year old.
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jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

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blades

Although, oldfart has already mentioned it. I thought I mention it again.

If you're going to buy a new set of blades, get a 600mm or 580mm. The 550's are too small for a 46.

On the otherhand, if you are cheap, the current 550's you got will work. Just no "maximized performance."


Jimmy
07-15-2002 Over year old.
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EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
blades

The heli is a scale Twinstar. 550 is the max blade length that can be used. I ordered a set of 550 semi's today and tomorrow will order the 14 tooth pinion. That should load the engine well enough.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-15-2002 Over year old.
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jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

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oh 550 is the longest

Hi,

I didn't know that the scale fuse will only allow for 550mm's max.

Yeah, semi's are the way to go then. Or if you can get your hands on a set of wide-chord blades. Their downside? JR makes 'em, and they are wooden, and they aren't cheap either. Finally, of all insults, they don't look pretty! Heh.

Stick with the semi's.
07-15-2002 Over year old.
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JR-Spektrum . E-flite . Fast Lad Performance

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV
 
 
EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

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Hawk IV ball bearing upgrade

Last night I installed the ball bearing upgrade kit to the Hawk IV for my Twinstar.

Everything tightened up on the mainshaft quite a bit. Without even flying it with the upgrades installed, I would have to say that the upgrade is necessary.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
07-16-2002 Over year old.
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Heli-Max . Hobby Hut . Heli Wholesaler

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Century Hawk - 50NX - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV
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