RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Hornet II pics

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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet II pics

andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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What servos are those 4.9g ones? I use the Waypoint 084-s, and they are remarkably better than the 4.4g "atom" servos I've got on the Shockflyer (endless jitter, hysteresis, etc.), but also heavier (9g or so).

Oh don't even make me think about crashes -- that encounter with the empty cardboard box before the H2 even left the ground for the first time was quite enough for me! Having said that, I've managed to empty 4 packs (600mAh, ~8min hover each) in my old office at work (as seen in the pictures) without crashing, even though the tail doesn't hold at all at this low RPM. 20T and 22T pinions are on their way...

András

01-24-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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Got the new battery today -- 910mAh high-discharge type (20C), so I won't have to use those Shockflyer packs anymore.It weighs more than advertised, so AUW is around 320g without the canopy, but it really rocks. Head speed is audibly higher than with the PolyQuest 600mAh packs, even when the blades aren't installed. I measured it at 1820 RPM with the Like90 blades. The gyro has no problems holding the tail in hover now, and the whole thing feels more like a helicopter. I put it on a kitchen scales just to measure thrust, but it felt so scary (I had to hold the heli by hand, haven't got a proper fixture) that I didn't make any real measurements. As a first indication, though, the heli will happily produce 750g thrust while the RPM only bogs down by about 10% (judged from the noise) (*). I'm eager to see how this thing performs with a larger pinion.

András

(*) I'm sure this comes from the voltage drop on the battery as current increases. With the larger pinion, I shouldn't need to run the governor at 100% RPM, so the RPM should be more stable.

01-24-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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Hey guys, got the pinions this morning. Question: to install them, do you just cut away some of the main frame? What does MS recommend in the Twister instructions?

András

01-26-2005 Over year old.

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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

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You can cut the frame to clear the pinion, or use Walt's idea and use a little bit of heat and a small socket to push the plastic out. I did a bit of both, and cut the bare minimum of material off.
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...12/IMGP2011.jpg

01-26-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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Thanks, I've done it in the meantime, I just cut some of the frame away. Hope this isn't a weak point of the heli now... the trouble is that my pinion (the only one I could get hold of in a reasonable time in the UK) is a bronze pinion that has a very wide collar and a set screw, and the latter two wouldn't clear the frame if I had done it like it is in your picture. I'm thinking of epoxying some strips of CF (have some left from the Shockflyer...) across the outside of the new hole just in case.

Anyway, I've just tried the 22T on the ground with my ACW DIY motor. With the Like90 blades, I get 2500RPM maximum head speed at 0 degrees collective, and current draw is around 4A. Then I put the whole thing on the scale (no ammeter this time) and it pushes around 750g maximum. I think what's even more important than this figure is how it performs in flight, we shall find out in due course. I'm planning to set RPM somewhat lower, maybe 2200, for the first gym session on Friday.

What I really like about this heli, compared to other micros I have seen, is the lack of the typical grinding motor/gear noise. Once the head is around 2000RPM, you can barely hear anything but the blades whirling around.

I've also got a 20T pinion, but based on your experience with the AXi, I don't think this would do any good. MS recommend 26T, you recommend 27T for the AXi/Twister, which has a Kv of 1880. If we multiply that by 1880/2200, 2200 being the approximate Kv of my motor, we get 22T and 23T as optimal sizes, respectively. If you tell me where my mistake in the calculation is, I'll be happy to try a different pinion (they cost me a fiver including shipping though).

AUW is 320g, should be slightly lighter with the second battery I've ordered, a 740mAh Kokam (20C cont., 30C burst -- isn't that amazing when you compare it to what we had just a year ago?). Canopy is still off.

András

01-26-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

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Here's where i got these servos http://www.singahobby.com/tah01.html

They were fine to begin with until i tried to clean the potentiometer pots without using the right electronics cleaner..... Very cool considering u get 1.2 kilograms of torque outta this small little box.... when u drop it on the floor it's so lite u hardly hear anything ..... but being micro mini servos.. they are sloppy and can't centre well in the first place... Walt's HS-50 mod did the trick. in removing the slop...

.. my ready to fly weight without batteries stands at 251grams... i'm trying to bring it as low as possible.... my aim is a 300 gram H2 with at least 1000mAh++... sounds very impossible... I caught on the "dieting" fever after reading one of Walt's old post about his 285g Hornet 2 with a Razor ver2 motor and 3s2p 340 packs....

About cutting out the frame to fit the pinions... if u use a file to "round" up any sharp corners, the frame would be less likely to crack there... try not to remove too much material as well... Fit had to replace his upper frame in a crash once because of this.

Right now i'm mounting nack my servos using shoe glue... my cyclic arm symmetries were out.. i ditched the stock CCPM plate cos it always restricted motor screw access.... I want to be able to switch pinions quick and easy.... (24 and 25t for indoor flying, 26t for those windy days... I find 25t quite to my liking.. as it is quieter). Nice to know that there is someone out there who favours quiet setups as well .....

01-27-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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300g is perfectly possible. Mine weighs 320g without canopy, but with a 910mAh 3S battery on board. Given that my servos are 9g each and the receiver is something like 20g, you could easily knock another 30g off by using lighter components, so a 10g canopy would bring the total weight to 300g.

I just bought a 2.5mm ball-head hex driver for the motor bolts so I can access them even with the stock servo plate in place. And I replaced the bolts with 8mm long ones, this makes it so much easier to install the motor.

András

01-27-2005 Over year old.

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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

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Aluminum motor mount bolts for the AXI save 1g

01-28-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

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I'm using aluminium bolts on my AXI already

01-29-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

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This is it.. I've to ditch these 4.9grams servos .. harlow fat ass Hornet 2....

Was flying this morning... I tot there were big winds: I keep having to p[put in huge amounts of cyclics in all directions at all times...

just tried the servos again... worked the cyclics 20 times in elevator and aileron planes... Centre went off on every servo..... sigh.... and the new trex canopy helped me save another 3 grams..... sigh...

01-30-2005 Over year old.

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sam tse
Senior Heliman
Location: kensington, london UK

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hi all!

heres my hornet 2 weighing in at 366g AUW with full duzi upgrades. i think a heavier hornet flies better in the wind.

for indoors, i want to try a smaller battery such as 900mah size.

bye all!

sam tse

alignuk
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01-31-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

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WOAH what a difference!

Lowell,
I copied ur servo layout format and laid out my hitecs HS-55s on the stock CCPM plate using GOOP.... Just spooled it up in my living room! Woah.... It's so smooth on the cyclics and stable!!! When i shift the cyclic stick... the stabiliser rocker head would not bob up and down anymore..... My hornet 2 stays in one place!!! cool!!!!

02-04-2005 Over year old.

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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

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Having the links vertical, and the servo horns level at zero pitch makes a noticeable difference over some of the more bizzare setups I've seen.

02-04-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

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I can fly it so close to my face!!!

Like in microFP videos.....

I'd one very wrong concept to begin wif in the first place... I thought that if all the links were 100% vertical .. then we won't get big enbough tilt angles on the swash

02-04-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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That Aircraft World DIY motor I've been reporting on earlier in the thread is awesome. I've just flown it successfully for the first time in a space larger than my living room, and gave something like +50% cyclic (must be around 8 degrees) for a split second (I'm a beginner, forgive me). The helicopter really jumped up like you see in those H2 3D videos... and headspeed didn't even decrease at all, stayed nicely at 1900RPM.

What followed was a bit of a cock-up though, the tail/gyro isn't set up well, so the tail responded to this maneuver with a series of ~180 degree turns, which landed me in the wall... I guess I was pretty lucky because this is all the damage that was done: main blades (Like90, not too expensive, and I have a spare set), main shaft bent (good job I've got that Heliup titanium one in the box already, only upgrade I have), seesaw pin to which BH crank attaches broken on one side (CA, a 1mm drill, and a 1mm pin will sort that over the week-end), and tail hub slipped (again, quickly sorted with CA).

What do we learn from this? Don't try things you can't do yet, especially if the tail isn't set up correctly.

András

02-04-2005 Over year old.

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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

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I don't think the tail will hold well if you suddenly put in 8 deg pitch at only 1900 rpm head speed. Did the heli yaw CCW and then snap back?

02-05-2005 Over year old.

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andras
Senior Heliman
Location: EU

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It didn't hold well in general. I had to keep right rudder in constantly even in a hover. What does head RPM have to do with how well the tail can compensate for this? Also, why is 1900 "low"? I thought Walt uses this kind of speed for his flying.

András

02-05-2005 Over year old.

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Blade-X
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

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U can get the same effect with a headspeed of 2600, an AUW of 333g with a wide pitch range... except ur tail wont give!

I've a question for all those writing here.... may i know what kind of tail drive shaft are u guys using?

I'm using one custom one from my LHS.... Titanium stainless steel alloy...

as light or lighter than stock... but won't fray like carbon rods... Gear and bearing removal is easy as pie.... I have the confidence to blast my throttle stick without worrying that the carbon shaft would twist or fray under load from the torque generated and the counter torque from tail blades at full deflection.... A frayed or partially twisted carbon rod is also the reason for a tail wag that's persistent.....

02-05-2005 Over year old.

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Fit

Senior Heliman - Location: Temasek - My Posts This: Topic Forum

Hi Guys,

Speaking of alloy driveshafts, I just one got mine as recommended by Blade X .This is how the alloy driveshaft looks like:

Its very light and at the same time strong. I will be rebuilding my tail
with the 22ACP's cast metal tail gears all around (conical and bevel gaers). Its going to be the easiest to maintain tail yet. The metal conical and bevel gears on the tail boom is engaged by a flat. The hole is not round but is "D" shaped. So all I have to do is file a flat, slide the gears on, a drop of loctite and voila no more slipping gears.

It will be easier to remove too with some heat. As for the tail output bevel gear, I will use the 22A's metal gear and tail output shaft and hub:

The good thing about the 22a's design is that there's no glue needed!
The bevel gear has a slot for a pin to engage. The pin goes through the gear and through the hole in the tail output shaft as seen above. The pin is in turn captured by the inner race of the bearing... brilliant.. No more fears of the gear slipping during continous hard piros.

A bulletoproof setup, thats very reliable and easy to maintain. Though due to it being all metal, when it crashes most likely the main gear is going to go since its the only palstic gear in the drivetrain.

Hornet X3D : GY401, 9CHP, AXI, MS116+____Evo 50, 50SXH

02-07-2005 Over year old.

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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

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I would rather change an E118 over a main gear. With an upgraded tail driveshaft and MicroHeli tail gearbox, the only thing I've damaged in numerous crashes is the E118. It can be changed at the field in a few minutes with a puller and a dab of CA for the new gear.

02-07-2005 Over year old.

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