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XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > Are you ready for this? 464gram T-Rex w/ 20 min fly times on a 1200mAH
 
 
Charley Stephens
Senior Heliman
Location: North Port ,FL

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the motor I have made (which resembles his) to fly shogun weighs 48gm it is 22turn 26awg 9tooth double stator, 12 mag poles(10x4x2mm) wired "delta parallel" using a 10 tooth pinion it gives me a head speed tached on the ground neutral pitch @ 2550 It has plenty of torqe so I bought an11t to pick up my head speed but now Im going to be playing with T-rex a little
01-09-2005 01:52 PM
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Art-Tistic
Senior Heliman
Location: Somerset, NJ

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First Off...Thanks Jarod!!!
I and many others appreciate your contributions to the Trex forum.

As for some specs on the motor, if you look at the pictures above, you can count most of the poles. It appears to be 12 poles. That would meen the stator is probably around 25ml (based on the kits and parts that I've come across) gobrushless has a kit coming that fits this bill.

I would suggest we patiently await confirmation from Jarod before rushing foward. If his info is correct this will surely effect the Trex market greatly. Cost would come down, weight would come down, and the "bird" will stay up longer.......we all win (even the wives if you caught the punn)


Regards,
Anthony

ps Jarod would you also inquire about the motor mount. I've wound several DIY BL motors and for me the hardest part is getting the darn thing in a heli. Thanks Again!!!
01-09-2005 02:00 PM
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Jarod
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Location: USA

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Thank you for words of supoort. I went to sleep really early last night and I couldnt beleive how many posts were added to the thread over the night. I thinking if his dam heli doesnt weigh what he says it does I just lied to everyone. The purpose of the pictures at first was simply to show how easily and for next to no money you can convert to CCPM. That in itself will deffinately loose 100 or so grams. To me thats enough of a reason for me to do it. I couldnt remember where he put everything to make it work so easily. Its seems like it would take a hour to convert over and it would cost you at the most a frame if you messsed up. $15 frame cost. He is using the lightest of everything. The fins are made of very thin G10 I think it is. Its also using GWS stuff that I personally dont care for but he says otherwise. The servos and electronics are as light as you can buy. I didnt really realize how light his Rex is. Its nothing compared to my totally stock Rex that I had out there yesterday. Mine is stretched and nothing has been done to lighten it. Its been really windy lately so its been working out better with the weight. I have another Rex that is about 30 grams lighter but is nothing im comparison with what I have been seeing lately. Whats 30 grams when You can get 100's of grams or who knows how light this thing will go when we get the carbon frames out. Even if he exagerated about the weight wich I dont think he did. I will find out for sure so dont worry about that. If this is all correct this could change the hobby for allot of people. The price of would come down a few hundred dollars if we can ligthen this thing up. Cheaper batteries, motors, im sure the list go on. Think about the cost of 5 - 1200mAh packs over 5 - 2100 packs. Enough said im on my way out the door. I hope his heli is there today. I emailed him this morning and told him to bring it no matter what.
01-09-2005 02:29 PM
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Torkroll
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield Ca

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ok well you tripped off a few BS meters and maybe it was 506 grams or something ..... but you did get our attention, and I think we are heading in the right direction.
01-09-2005 07:26 PM
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pulsar110
Senior Heliman
Location: Provo,UT

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Jarod I just converted mine to CCPM and my conversion looks alot like his but I sure didnt loose anywhere close to 100 grams. I lost weight but not like that.

I would be very interested in a motor like you guys have been talking about but I dont want to put one together. Is there a place that we can get them? How does the power compare to say the Mega 16/15/3? I ask because if his Trex is really 406 AUW then it wouldnt need the power that a stock does however it would be nice to have.

Fly it like its a rental...
01-09-2005 07:44 PM
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Jarod
Veteran
Location: USA

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Quote 
I would like to see this one on a scale to prove me wrong. Please prove me wrong... I want to go lighter with mine... not bigger. (I'm anti-strech kit)


OK so you wanted proof. I brought my scale and my camera to document this unbeliavable setup. No smoke and mirrors here. 1st off he was off by 2 ounces. I misunderstood. The Carbon Frame weighs 2 ounces less. Then the heli pictured. He had the carbon one there almost complete. Its so sweet. Im very impressed.

His non carbon frame heli with 1200mAh battery ready to fly. He told me he can use an E-Tec 830 to drop even more wieght but the 1200 battery is the best match for this setup. He is also still using the 30 gram stock canopy. He has a super light weight canopy in the works too for that problem. I dont have any pictures of the carbon frame. It was ready for landing gear and electronics to be mounted. Its not far from complete. It uses allot of the pieces from the frame so be prepared to get a dremel with a cutting disc. Excellent use of the parts already availaible in the kit along with the sweet looking carbon plates for the exterior frame support. Becasue its using allot of parts in the kit it would probably be a very inexpesive kit compared to some alternative carbon frame kits soon to hit the market.
01-09-2005 11:20 PM
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ozzie111
Heliman
Location: Waco, Texas USA

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Even at that it's still impressive.

Were you able to get any more specs on his CD Rom motor?
01-09-2005 11:24 PM
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Jarod
Veteran
Location: USA

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yes I did but it sounded like babble to me. Ask away and I will get your answer from him. I have his phone number now. I told to expect me to call. Im going over there this week to build another T-Rex to match his. It costs nothing to do, you dont have to buy anything. He did make an alluminum ccpm conversion plate for the swash but its not hard to do.
01-09-2005 11:28 PM
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pulsar110
Senior Heliman
Location: Provo,UT

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Ok Jarod I cant wait for the details on what all he and you did. I can see that he trimmed the fat on the frames like you did a month ago. I weighed the pitch arm and servo mounts when I took them off and that was 22 grams off buy I gained a little back when I blocked the servos to mount and made an alum swash holder which seems very much like his. I weighed mine lastnight and it was 638 grams all up ready to fly. The only thing that I have different is a TP 1900mah pack but from what I have been able to read it weighs the same as the 2100. I need to get a new 2100 mine was ruined with too many flights driving a ducted fan.

Also I had a thought lastnight and just went to look. For the swash plate holder with a little work one can be used from the Eco8. I just looked and the width of the pegs is slightly wider than the frames on the Trex but I think it could be adapted pretty easy and clip off the canopy holer pegs to make it even lighter. Just something to think about.

Fly it like its a rental...
01-10-2005 12:11 AM
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Jarod
Veteran
Location: USA

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When I convert mine. I will be so kind to document each step with a camera. I will give directions at to what was involved in each step along with pictures. I will be building a motor to match his and show all of you how it was done. Be patient this project probably wont happen for at liest 1 to 2 weeks. Im just glad I can contribute to the community. I know I have learned allot from some people here and would like to continue to share my knowledge. It will be the Post of all posts for those who want this setup.
01-10-2005 12:39 AM
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ozzie111
Heliman
Location: Waco, Texas USA

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Jarod,

I wanted to know how many poles he has on the stator on his motor,
what gauge wire he used and whether he used delta or star wiring on his motor, or if it is an LRK. If it is LRK can you get the wiring sequence.
This may sound greek, but if you ask him, he will understand.
If you could find out what magnets he is using that would also be useful.

Thanks,

Oz
01-10-2005 01:45 AM
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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Awesome Jarod! You'll make me love my T-rex even more. Can hardly wait!
01-10-2005 01:52 AM
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Tyler
Elite Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

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Great job Jarod. I appreciate your documentation. I have been waiting along the side lines to see what would happen in the micro heli advancements, and this seems to be the thread to keep watching. I look forward to your updates and will get my cash ready to make some purchases.

By the way, what gyro is he using?

Is there any chance you could get a video of his flying? I wonder if the thing will tick tock, piro flip, etc.

Tyler
01-10-2005 02:53 AM
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Chaisit
Senior Heliman
Location: Thailand

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We're appriciated on what you've done! Well done Jarod.
01-10-2005 05:55 AM
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johnny b
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Coast, CA

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This is great information!

I really like the way the H2 flies, but I'm wary of getting one because of its fragile nature and expensive parts.

I like the robustness of the Trex, but didn't like the porky weight.

Now these easy conversions make a lot of sense. Like in 3D planes, the electric brushless/lipo revolution has made it possible to use a smaller motor, battery, and other electronics and radically reduce weight while maintaining a great power-to-weight ratio. Almost all my flyable electric planes are sub-1lb, whereas years ago their glow counterparts would have been double that weight for the same size. Net effect? IMO better flying, and less crass damage due to less mass.

Back to heli's. THIS is what the Trex needs, to weigh in the mid-teens. Drop to a 3s 1200-1300 set-up, use a CC10 (if possible), lighter servos and rx equipment, and its right in the weight area of the Maxir, which has great 3D capabilities on 3s 1200-1320 and Axi 2208/20. Differences? Less cost of equipment, less mass to cause damage on impact, while still providing a larger blade disc area for (hopefully) more stable flights than the H2 and similar smaller birds.

On to my next question--couldn't you use an Axi 2208/20 with properly picked pinion as an off the shelf motor? That's what is used on the Maxir, which falls in the mid-teens for weight and seems to perform very well. The Axi 2208/20 is around 1.5oz weight as I recall. If the constant amps is under 10A, the CC10 can handle the load, and it only weighs 0.15oz. Also, I have a bunch of Cirrus 5.4g servos, which are rated around 16oz/in2, so it sounds like they would help drop weight off the HS56's (11g) or whatever other people are currently using. I also have good luck with GWS 6 ch rx's on 3D planes, although I haven't flown a heli yet with one (I'm only learning on an Esky FP heli and RF G2 sim right now).

This is exciting stuff. I was wondering if the Trex could be put on a diet to put it in the weight range of the Maxir. This might be the ticket to a great performing heli that achieves awesome power-to-weight and cost savings by going lighter instead of heavier. Add in that belt drive tail, solid construction, and readily available and fairly priced replacement parts, and the Trex could be a real all-around winner for both sport flying and 3D micro flight.
01-10-2005 06:10 PM
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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By the end of the month Microheli is supposed to come out with a CCPM frame (first alu, then CF) for the T-rex. I am sure it will be great with a lot of weight savings, but knowing Microheli it's going to be real expensive too! That's why it's so good to have these threads! Keep up the good work!
01-10-2005 06:24 PM
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Jarod
Veteran
Location: USA

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Quote 
On to my next question--couldn't you use an Axi 2208/20 with properly picked pinion as an off the shelf motor?


I heard them talking about that motor and it was said that it would be the closest match to the home built CDrom motors. So yes there is an off the shelf motor you can buy that will be very similar to the ones that are bieng built and pictured above. Im still holding out of few secrets that he is using to keep the weight so low. Ill share them soon. Cant give out all the candy in one shot its not as much fun. I will keep you posted on the project as said. When I start the thread or maybe ill just put up a website with the directions including a few weight saving tricks im sure no one else has thought of as far as I know. Ill give you one trick as not to be cruel and hold out on those wanting to loose weight sooner then later. Eddie is using a CF rod as his main shaft. That drops 12 more grams right there. And there not $10 bucks each to replace. Much less then that. Best part of using a CF main shaft is that in a wreck its the first to give or split. He never damages his main gears becasue the shaft will split and save the gears. And yes its plenty strong for 3D flight I have witnessed it first hand.
01-10-2005 11:21 PM
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dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

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Thanks Jarod for the tip! You know what would make this thread even better? With every mod that you post you could post a source on where to buy too. This way we could go right out and do the mod...
01-10-2005 11:28 PM
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johnny b
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Coast, CA

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You guys are going to make me get a Trex instead of a Hornet 2 now, and I'll probably be thanking you all when I spend more time (and less $$$) flying instead of fixing.

Okay, some fuzzy math of mine on this set-up. Correct as you see fit, but it seems to me the vast majority of the weight savings is coming from using smaller (and less expensive) electronics. What I'm doing is taking a Trex that weighs about 22oz AUW on a typical setup I see on the web and working my way back component-by-component to see how much weight is saved:

Use 3s1200's instead of 3s2100's : Save 2.5oz
Use Axi 2208 vs. a Mega 16/?/?: Save 1.2oz
Use Cirrus 5.4's instead of Hitec HS56: Save 0.7oz (about 5g per servo weight difference)
Use CC10 instead of CC25: Save 0.5oz
Use GWS 6ch rx instead of Hitec Electron 6: Save 0.5oz
Use Telebee/Zoom gyro instead of Futaba GY240: Save 0.5oz

That's 5.8oz of difference right there! So if you were at 22oz AUW on my made-up, typical "porky" Trex, now you're at 16.2oz. The biggest assumption I think I made? Well the Mega motors are 2.7oz according to the website I checked vs. 1.5oz for the Axi 2208, and I know a lot of guys run the Align motors which are actually just over 2oz, so I probably deducted too much there since a lot of people use the Align motors. BUT, Jarod's given us the CF shaft savings of 12g (~0.4oz savings), so just doing that one cheap mod puts that AUW of 462g in pretty reasonable stricking distance. Do the CCPM mod, cut a little off the frame, trim this or that, and you have a nice little micro heli that should weigh in around 16oz, which sounds more healthy for a heli this size than 20+oz.

My question, Jarod, is how well does this lightened Trex do 3D acrobatics? And what kind of headspeed does the motor/battery pack able to hold?
01-11-2005 12:00 AM
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Jarod
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Location: USA

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He also drilled out the boom supports and put in a smaller diameter carbon shaft. Really other then that JohnnyB hit the nail on the head. All the electronics are the lightest you can get. Your math is correct. All that plus the CCPM mod and 1.5 oz motor and the a few other tricks such as a CF main shaft and 1/32 inch thick G10 stab and vert fins you can see it in the pictures. Carving a little fat from the frame and thats about it. He isnt even using a CF boom yet! Im going to really push to get a kit put together we can offer. Once we get a few prototypes flying without bugs Ill look into getting it mass produced. If anyone has advice on that Im interested. I want the kit to be CF plates with predrilled holes. Im not sure how expensive carbon is for what we want to make? Cant be that much? I would love to offer a CF kit for 1/4 the cost of others being released. Lets keep the T-Rex tradition true and not allow it to become a cash machine like the shogun/zoom/zap or whatever its being called. Oh also you asked how does it fly. Its flies MUCH better then my stock rex does. It will do rolling circles in place, tick tocks, piro flips, and more that I dont know the names to. I tached his headspeed sunday at 2000 even while Larry the Futaba sponsored heli pilot flew the lightened heli inverted for the pictures. That camera I used has no zoom lense I was inches from those blades. He is an incredible pilot and he loved flying the ccpm rex. He said he has one thats CCPM. He said convert all of my Rex'z to CCPM. I said no way I just want to do one as a project. He laughed and said you wont want a stock one after you fly the CCPM one. He is probably right.
01-11-2005 12:30 AM
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24 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ]36701 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > Are you ready for this? 464gram T-Rex w/ 20 min fly times on a 1200mAH
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