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HIROBO Turbulence - SDX - Freya - Sceadu > Freya X-Spec clutch shaft dial
 
 
Alpine
Veteran
Location: Lexington, Ky

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Can anyone steer me to some instructions on how to dial my X-Spec clutch shaft. I am having great difficulty doing that. I am having a lot of vertical tail side to side vibration. Have .08 mm out of round on the lower and upper part of the clutch shaft . Lots of foaming at the gas tank.
thanks,
Roberto.
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

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It could be the piece to which the clutch mounts to is bad. Hit it with some 400gt sand paper and check it again. try moving the clutch 180 degrees also. if that doesn't help contact Jeff G. at MRC and explain the problem. he can probably shoot you of a new hub if needed.
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

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You need to be under .05mm or better. Unless you do a little machining on the fan hub to help with the alignment you will have to rotate and tighten until the fan hub is as close as possible. Check the OD and Face run out.

At the point where the hub is dialed in as close as I can get it, take an X-Acto knife and relieve the hub ID where the clutch bolts on so you can slide the clutch around on the flywheel. This will let you move the clutch around so you can dial the shaft in. I usually take out enough material so I can move the clutch around between .1-.2mm.

My hub is running at .03mm and the shaft is running at .025mm. It just takes a little time.


Terry
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

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x-spec runout

theres some good info here about runout. Good luckhttp://www.runryder.com/helicopter/f27p1/.
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

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whoops

Wrong one. sorry. try this.
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t126159p1/
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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mrNoodles
rrProfessor
Location: Borlänge, Sweden

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Did as carcrasher suggest on my hub and clutch, got both down to .01mm

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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MRC-Hirobo
rrAdvertiser
Location: Edison, NJ

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Dialing in Fan hub/Clutch shoe

Here are some tips.

1) Make sure the clutch shoe fits easily into the fan hub. If not, when tightened down, the shoe will not sit flat on the fan hub and you will get an out of round condition. You may need to "relieve" the clutch shoe locating hole in the fan hub to get this easy fit. TMoores suggestion is dead on.

2) Now the clutch shoe is seating easily and removing easily, spin the clutch shoe while it is seated on the fan hub checking for easy spinning with no "bumps" while spinning it. If you feel bumps while spinning it on the fan hub, check for burrs on the fan hub and or clutch shoe bolt holes that may be causing the "bump" This bump will also cause the shaft to go out of round when the bolts are tightened down.

3) It is a good idea to check the run out of the fan hub to identify the high spot and verify that when the clutch is bolted to the fan hub that the high spot at the bottom of the clutch shaft is in the same place. This measurement will also tell you how much and what direction you will need to shift the shoe to get under or as close to .001 run out.

4) Now check the runout of the clutch shoe by measuring the bottom part of the clutch shaft. Mark its high side and compare to that of the fan hub just for info sake. Try turning the shoe and see if the runout changes for the better. If not, put it back in the other orientation.

Now make a mark on the fan hub opposite the high side of the clutch shoe/shaft and open the fan hub clutch shoe mounting hole using sand paper or an xacto knife using this mark as a reference for where to open the hole (be careful!) just so you can feel the shoe moving a little bit side to side, (high spot to opposite high spot). Try to open only half of the hole in the direction you need to move the clutch shoe. For reference, when you can feel it move side to side, this is usually about .002"

Now, install the clutch shoe mounting bolts and while pushing the clutch shoe in the opposite direction tighten them up and recheck your runout. Keep repeating this process until the shaft reads .001 or better. If need be you can also open the fan hub clutch mounting hole a little more at a time as well as the clutch shoe mounting bolts to get more area for movement.

When this is done, you will have a precisely mounted clutch assy that will be vibration free and virtually maintenance free. The more you do this, you will get faster at it and it will not be a "tedious" as it might be right now.

Hirobo is always looking to make improvements so they will do their best to make this part of the building process even easier. Note, there are no parts to wear out here, so once done it is done for the life of the engine or clutch shoe.

On a side note, the Eagle 3 fan hub is a more precise unit that virtually eliminates the need to do some of this extra work, but it does cost more and you still need to check the shafts run out.

If you have any other questions and/or would like me to get to do it for you. Just let me know.

Good luck and be sure to ask more questions if you need to.

Jeff
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

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Jeff
What is the prt number for the Eagle 3 fan hub? I may want to look into that.
09-24-2004 Over year old.
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MRC-Hirobo
rrAdvertiser
Location: Edison, NJ

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I put one on your engine when you came in here.

Jeff
09-27-2004 Over year old.
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carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

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I don't remember if you did or not.
09-27-2004 Over year old.
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4cyclic
Veteran
Location: Montreal, Can. and northern Vt

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I just did the fan/clutch install on my second x-spec on weekend and the blue hub was at 0.001 when tightened down on the OS. The clutch shaft at the base was 0.0005 and the top of shaft was 0.002. I just needed to put a 0.002 brass shim under one side of the clutch to make the shaft top also at 0.0005. The whole thing took 10 minutes.

J.L.
09-27-2004 Over year old.
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vols77
Senior Heliman
Location: Hills of Tennessee

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Do you all DI the clutch fan assembly with the motor together - glow plug out. I take out the cylinder sleeve and piston. When I try to DI with the motor together, the added resistance of the piston moving makes getting a accurate reading hard to do.



Rick
09-27-2004 Over year old.
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TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

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Rick,

I bolt the engine down to a a couple of 123 blocks and then c-clamp the blocks to a drill press table. If you don't mount the engine and the indicator solidly you will chase the indicator all over the place.

Terry
09-27-2004 Over year old.
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

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I definately DI with the whole lot bolted to the engine. Sometimes the crank can be a tad out as I found with my OS91 PS, so I have to "tweak" the crank a tad, being very careful



Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
09-27-2004 Over year old.
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Alpine
Veteran
Location: Lexington, Ky

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DrLodge , what do you mean being very carefull ? what do you use to tweak the crank end /
thanks,
Roberto.
09-28-2004 Over year old.
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

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a socket set - placed on the crank nut with a socket that fits snuggly in the hub, then carefully ease the crank to straighten it.

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
09-28-2004 Over year old.
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Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

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Dial indicate

I read on jason.net that the Eagle/Freya "woodruff" key of the WC clutch hub design does away with the taper collet, which eliminates alignment problems and that there is absolotely no need to dial indicate the fan hub.

I am not sure what "woodruff" key is.

Dial indicating to me seems like a pain, since I don't own a dial indicator myself.

My opinion is that there should be no need to dial indicate anything really. Heck I have already payed $850 and up for a kit. But, if we have to dial indicate, then we will dial indicate just to save the model from shakes.

-Hinke
09-28-2004 Over year old.
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

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The woodruff key is a small tab of metal that inserts into a slot in the crank, and engages in a similar slot in the hub. This will eliminate DI problems due to the taper collet, but won't stope either the crank not being straight, or the hub & clutch mating surfaces not be strictly true.

How does the Fury auto alignment mechanism work - is that something Hirobo should learn from, and perhaps even improve?



Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
09-28-2004 Over year old.
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Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

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ok

So does this woodruff key design exist on the Freya X-spec?

-Hinke
09-28-2004 Over year old.
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mrNoodles
rrProfessor
Location: Borlänge, Sweden

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Woodruff key in Swedish = 'kryss kil'

Yes the XSpec uses a woodruff key, since it´s using the WC flywheel.

Even the ones the flywheels that uses woodruff keys 'needs' to be DI´d.
As much as some old Loctite between the flywheel and clutch can affect the clutch shaft runout.

You dont 'need' to dial indicate anything, you can just throw the thing together while watching a movie or so, but chances are pretty big that the engine/clutch needs to be removed and re-aligned afterwards.
So if doing it correctly from the first time you can exclude those parts if the fuel in the tank is foaming, fins are buzzing etc.

It also saves the bearings above the clutchbell, and makes the living easier for the electronics on your heli.
Mufflers do break sometime, one well known cause is vibrations.

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
09-28-2004 Over year old.
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HIROBO Turbulence - SDX - Freya - Sceadu > Freya X-Spec clutch shaft dial
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