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CANOMOD . Experience RC . Heli-Max

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Century Radikal - Hawk - 50NX - Predator > Hawk Sport swashplate problem
 
 
NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello everyone,

I'm having a problem with my swashplate. When I give a full aileron command, the back of the swashplate lifts up, without me telling it to. I have an antirotation bracket on the swash but that is not causing it. Whats wrong?!?

Thanks,
NewHeli
Hawk Sport, Futaba 9C, GY401 w/ 9253, O.S. 32sx-h, GV-1
08-24-2004 Over year old.
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the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		you may have to much swash deflection so you are getting a bind,,, the best way I know how to tell if you do have a bind in swash deflection is~~~ to disconnect the links on the iner-top star of you swash, now disconnect the link to the pitch servo, now with your Tx and Rx turned on move your Tx's cyclic stick so you have full Elve & Aile together, now with full Elve & Aile move your pitch control arm so your swash moves up and down, if you feel a bind in your pitch arm then you need to adjust your Tx,,,

both your cyclic's ATV should be set at 100%, and you should be using you dual rates to set the throw of your servos to stop the binding, for a heli your dual rates should be set the same in both dual rates switch position, if you want to use your dual rates switches for a quick feel and soft feel then set your switch with 2 different Expo rates.


Jim
08-24-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I don't think I hav too much swash deflection, but I'll give what you said a try

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-24-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I don't think I hav too much swash deflection, but I'll give what you said a try and see how that goes.

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-24-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sorry! Didn't know I had a double post....

the Wasp--
Anyways, I tried what you said, there is only binding at the top corners of the sticks (full forward and left/right cyclic).

But I am certain this is not the cause of the rear of the swashplate lifting up. There has to be binding somewhere else... I could make a mix to counteract this tilting, but that is not the right way to go...

anyone else...
Please help, any replies welcome

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No, the Hawk Sport uses standard mechanical mixing. The elevator servo doesn't move when I give aileron commands.

I think the aileron servo might have some sort of differential throw because of the way the control horn is setup. The aileron links don't go on perpendicular to the servo, but actually at a 15 degrees angle towards the front of the helicopter (I used a 6-star horn). Could that be it?

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The control horn is probably your problem. The required setup is difficult to put into words, but I'll try. The control rod balls should be set on a wheel, about 10 mm out from the center, such that the angle formed by the rod, ball, and the center screw of the servo horn form a 90 degree angle when the servo is at center. With a JR servo wheel, the small one, there are 12 holes on the wheel, in four groups of three. If you put one ball in the center hole of one group of three, and the other one on the other side of the wheel in the front hole of the group of three, it works out perfect.

After all that is done, adjust the rod lengths so that the bellcranks are at 90 derees to the main shaft, when viewed from the side of the heli, when the servo is at center. Then, with the elevator servo at center, adjust the length of it's push rod so the elevator bell crank, again when viewed from the side, is parallel with the aileron bellcranks. Then adjust the lengths of the rods from the aileron bellcranks to the swash to level the swash.

I try to maintain that geometry by always making trim adjustments using the rods from the aileron bell cranks.

Then, with the collective set at mid range on the radio, set the ball on the servo so that it form a 90 degree angle with the pushrod and center screw, and adjust the pushrod to get the swash half way in it's collective travel.

Then adjust the lengths of the rods from the swash to the bell mixers to get the pitch correct at the blades. I usually do this at the center range and zero degrees pitch.

I know this sounds difficult, but after you do it one time, and see how it goes together, step by step, it is really quite simple.

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		So the control balls shouldn't be at 15 degree angles towards the front? Thats what the manual says...but I do understand what you're saying. So 90 degrees from rod to ball to center screw...got it. Except I use a Futaba system, and they're small wheels' holes aren't 10mm from center, they're less. I don't think there's room for a big wheel either. So can I use and arm?

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes, the instructions are "general" and it works "OK", but I find my setup works better.

I've set them up using Futabas, and what I did that worked good was to use the large wheel, cut down on a disc sander to the smaller size, and drilled the holes where I wanted them.

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Steve-

Okay I'll give that a try, that should work good. I'll let you know how it goes, or if it fixes it or not!

NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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Breitenstein
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark (Scandinavia)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have used one of the large Futuba wheels like SteveH mentioned and it works perfect!
I have used the 8,2mm marked ring, and offset the ball 1,5mm forward. That gives a 10 Deg. offset and it works fine with no binding. My ATV is 110.
I've measured my cyclic Pitch to be 5 deg. Whith the washout arms connected to the long balls on the Swash, and 7 deg. with the washout arms connected to the short balls.
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I tried putting the balls 90 degrees to the rods and center screw, but I couldn't shorten the rods enough to make that work. Maybe if I try the 1.5 mm thing that Breitenstein suggested it will work...

I'll try that...

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		NewHeli,

If you could not shorten the rods enough, you are using the wrong rods, or you did not understand my discription of the 90 degree angle.

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-25-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Steve,

I completely understand your description of the 90 degree angle thing. The rods were too long only by about 2 or 3 turns.

I tried what Breitenstein said and it completely illiminates the problem with right cyclic, but still is barerly present with left cyclic. It think it just needs a little adjusting....

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-26-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Guys,

I talked to one of my local heli buddies and he said the closer I can get those links to 90 degrees the better, otherwise the aileron servo will have a differential throw...I'll keep tryin it!

Where'd u guys go? More replies welcome...

NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-26-2004 Over year old.
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SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
"he said the closer I can get those links to 90 degrees the better"


There is an echo in my computer!

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-26-2004 Over year old.
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Breitenstein
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark (Scandinavia)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		NewHeli: If you have set your Aileron links up the way i posted earlier, you should have an angle of exactly 90 deg.
The angle is exactly 90 deg on mine! I have NO bindings on either right or left cyclic.
08-27-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Breitenstein,


If I set it up your way it will no be exactly 90 degrees
Quote 
offset the ball 1,5mm forward. That gives a 10 Deg. offset

Because you have a resulted 80 degree angle from the center screw to the ball to the rod.

The only way I can get 90 degrees is by having the servo horn wheel perfectly centered, with the cross lines perpendicular to the servo, and mounting the ball on one of those lines, as Steve suggested (but I couldn't shorten the rods enough).

I will keep trying, but Breitenstein, your setup did help signifigantly!

NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-27-2004 Over year old.
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Breitenstein
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark (Scandinavia)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		That's a bit strange....! I have the ballconnectors 8,2mm out from the center and offset 1,5mm, and on mine the angle IS 90 deg.

I know the manual says that the ballconnectors should be 10mm out, but if I set mine further out than 8,2mm, I'll get bindings!!
Both my Aileron (Roll) and Elevator (Nick) servos is setup this way.

If you have the ballconnectors 10mm out from the center, the offset should be 2 mm.

I'll try to post a pic. of how it's made on mine. It may take a few days.'cos I'll have to lend a digital camera from my job to do it.

I'm only glad if I'm able to help!
08-27-2004 Over year old.
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NewHeli
Key Veteran
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Breitenstein,

I got your email, I replied to it!

You have already helped alot, your setup has fix mine alot, just not completely. Maybe thats because I didn't do 8.2mm, I did 10mm?

I would appreciate that pic...I'll be waiting!

Thanks,
NewHeli

Nathaniel Rice
Team HeliWholesaler
08-28-2004 Over year old.
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Hobby Hut . Heli Wholesaler . JR-Spektrum

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Century Radikal - Hawk - 50NX - Predator > Hawk Sport swashplate problem
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